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Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

theguardian.com

111–120 of 142 posts

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#111

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

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Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#112
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It baffles me that there was even a need for 'a deal'. I mean: WTF. Can't we just be free?! Sure, but that freedom means not doing any trade with your neighbours, not letting people from your country visit the EU (and vice versa), not importing any energy, etc.

Why does the EU have to limit trade? Importing energy? Can't you just leave that to the countries themselves? That's my whole point: the EU was never a good plan.

> Can't you just leave that to the countries themselves?

No. A big point in favor of the EU is that countries do not negotiate individually but as a single block. This is an advantage because it gives them more power and the ability of getting better deals (in aggregate). Which is exactly the sort of "bullying" that you are complaining about: by deciding to go alone, the UK is weaker and gets worse deals.

In fact, a well-functioning EU is one of the only ways in which European countries can hope to count anything in a world dominated by much larger economies (US, China, India, ...)

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the EU have to limit trade? Importing energy? Can't you just leave that to the countries themselves? That's my whole point: the EU was never a good plan.

> Can't you just leave that to the countries themselves? No. A big point in favor of the EU is that countries do not negotiate individually but as a single block. This is an advantage because it gives them more power and the ability of getting better deals (in aggregate). Which is exactly the sort of "bullying" that you are complaining about: by deciding to go alone, the UK is weaker and gets worse deals. In fact, a…

Call me naïve, but what's the point of 'more power'? And 'better deals'? Didn't we have enough food on the table before the EU? Sure, striving for better is fine, but enough is enough right? And if you've build an economy that's favorable for everyone (as the Dutch have. Especially knowledge. See ASML) you don't need to convince other countries to do business with you. I just don't see the added value of the EU. What I see now is a wealth transfer form the Dutch to the 'poor' EU countries. If you don't believe me, checkout the pension fund management of the Dutch. (more than 1000 billion euro 'disappeared' over the last 10 years and shows up in Greece, Italy, Spain. Or as windmill. Or a rainbow flag.). Man, I get angry even talking about it. Wasting the future of my children.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm originally American and if there were large groups of people moving here from Texas, not learning Dutch, and bringing Texan values I'd be pretty worried. Sure just replace the rowhouses with skyscrapers and burn the cars.. looking the results of the last elections sounds like your Californian and not Texan values are what worries the Dutch people.. unbelievable

You may be relieved to find that California is extremely restrictive with respect to building skyscrapers and considered by many to be incredibly accommodating of private automobiles. Anyway, this is a gross mischaracterization of my comment. Wanting my child to be able to bike to school safely doesn't mean burning cars. And I explicitly noted Paris since it's an example of a dense city with surprisingly low building…

> It seems like there should be an opportunity to replace a lot of these with something like the 4-5 story buildings you see in Paris, for instance

You know what "replace a lot of" means right? Concretely, you are saying that people should leave their homes to make more place for new people..I can imagine why people won't like it.

> I'm originally American and if there were large groups of people moving here from Texas, not learning Dutch, and bringing Texan values I'd be pretty worried.

I think you did a mischaracterization of the Texan values in the first place.. no?

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the EU wasn't really cooperating in making a deal with the UK. Could you clarify this? What kind of deal should the UK have gotten? Should the UK get a better deal than other countries which are not in the union?

Give the UK (the people in the UK) the freedom to do business with whomever they want. Without 'bullying' border rules. But no, EU said: You left us and that makes us angry. My whole point is: there should never have bin a EU. What was wrong with the agreement between countries?

You should have stayed in the EEA or EFTA then. The UK was one of the founding members of the EEA. Tatcher was quite against the EU and the Euro anyway.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#116

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

Frankly I'm afraid most people voting for those fascist parties (and other right wing parties) had no clue what they were actually voting for. Populism works really well, sadly.

I think it's time for a populist progressive left wing party in The Netherlands as a counterweight to the havoc the parties on the right are causing.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be relieved to find that California is extremely restrictive with respect to building skyscrapers and considered by many to be incredibly accommodating of private automobiles. Anyway, this is a gross mischaracterization of my comment. Wanting my child to be able to bike to school safely doesn't mean burning cars. And I explicitly noted Paris since it's an example of a dense city with surprisingly low building…

> It seems like there should be an opportunity to replace a lot of these with something like the 4-5 story buildings you see in Paris, for instance You know what "replace a lot of" means right? Concretely, you are saying that people should leave their homes to make more place for new people..I can imagine why people won't like it. > I'm originally American and if there were large groups of people moving here from Tex…

Every city has replaced old housing with new over time. Should there still be straw huts on the Seine?

Texas values libertarianism, individualism, the right to bear arms, etc which might be fine but seems out of place here.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a recent immigrant to NL but one kind of surprising thing is how low density a lot of the cities are. Look around Hilversum, Houten, etc. (random examples I'm familiar with) and it's mostly rowhouses. It seems like there should be an opportunity to replace a lot of these with something like the 4-5 story buildings you see in Paris, for instance. Also, quite a few cars (and big SUV's, and even quite a few full-siz…

> Hilversum Wealthy. That probably explains some of it.

Ironically we're only here because we couldn't find a place in Utrecht.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hilversum Wealthy. That probably explains some of it.

Ironically we're only here because we couldn't find a place in Utrecht.

I wonder if the people of Hilverrrsum/'t Gooi do or will soon have qualms about the riff-raff/nonhereditarily landed folks moving to their neighborhoods after being priced out of the major Randstad cities

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like there should be an opportunity to replace a lot of these with something like the 4-5 story buildings you see in Paris, for instance You know what "replace a lot of" means right? Concretely, you are saying that people should leave their homes to make more place for new people..I can imagine why people won't like it. > I'm originally American and if there were large groups of people moving here from Tex…

Every city has replaced old housing with new over time. Should there still be straw huts on the Seine? Texas values libertarianism, individualism, the right to bear arms, etc which might be fine but seems out of place here.

>Every city has replaced old housing with new over time.

They have. But arguably it's hard to move the needle a huge amount by piecemeal replacing 2 story buildings as they come onto the market with 4 story ones.

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