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Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

theguardian.com

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Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#111

Post by avar »

vkou wrote: post #75
MichaelZuo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that unusual among all the countries of the world? Or is the US unusual for having a statute of limitations?

Most countries have statues of limitations for criminal offenses. It makes sense - imagine trying to defend yourself against an case where the police has been sitting on evidence for 50 years, and anyone you could call in your defense is long-dead.

One argument for a statute of limitations is fading human memory, but I don't see how that's the case here, from the article:

> "Discarded TV film was secretly salvaged from bins and skips by staff and contractors who worked at the BBC between 1967 and 1978, when the corporation had a policy of throwing out old reels. [...] “The collectors involved are ex-employees and so are terrified. The rule was that you didn’t take anything, even if it had been thrown out."

I think making this an offense is insane, but I don't see how these cases are any more ambiguous than if the same happened yesterday.

The question is whether the owner of property has a right to order its destruction, and whether an employee (or equivalent) is stealing or legitimately salvaging if they "rescue" said property from the trash.

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#112

Post by nvm0n2 »

It says a lot about the state of the BBC that they produce so little sci-fi that this is actually considered news. Look at Netflix, for whom sci-fi/fantasy is the most popular genre of show and as a consequence they invest heavily into it.

The BBC seems to be staffed by an incredibly narrow and stifling cultural homogeneity in which period dramas that appeal to middle aged women are good, but sci-fi shows that appeal to young men aren't even on the radar. Dr Who is notable primarily because it's one of the only recognizable sci-fi shows they ever made, and it's targeted at kids. The others are mostly comedies like Red Dwarf or Hitchhiker's Guide and they're all from decades ago.

One day the BBC is going to lose the license fee and discover it doesn't even know what types of shows are popular, let alone how to make them.

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#113

Post by krapp »

nvm0n2 wrote: post #112

It says a lot about the state of the BBC that they produce so little sci-fi that this is actually considered news. Look at Netflix, for whom sci-fi/fantasy is the most popular genre of show and as a consequence they invest heavily into it. The BBC seems to be staffed by an incredibly narrow and stifling cultural homogeneity in which period dramas that appeal to middle aged women are good, but sci-fi shows that appeal…

This isn't news because the BBC produces so little sci-fi, it's news because of the popularity and hstorical legacy of Doctor Who specifically. No one (except maybe lost media nerds) would care if this were about Blake's Seven or something.

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#114

Post by benj111 »

avar wrote: post #111
vkou wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries have statues of limitations for criminal offenses. It makes sense - imagine trying to defend yourself against an case where the police has been sitting on evidence for 50 years, and anyone you could call in your defense is long-dead.

One argument for a statute of limitations is fading human memory, but I don't see how that's the case here, from the article: > "Discarded TV film was secretly salvaged from bins and skips by staff and contractors who worked at the BBC between 1967 and 1978, when the corporation had a policy of throwing out old reels. [...] “The collectors involved are ex-employees and so are terrified. The rule was that you didn’t t…

Legal or not, the BBC obviously put a value of zero on these things when they threw them away.

So who has lost, what value needs to be recovered? There's no reasonable reason for anyone to pursue legal action, it would just be vexatious and / or a waste of tax payer money.

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#115

Post by benj111 »

DonHopkins wrote: post #77
petermcneeley wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people also concluded that this was statement of my personal position. It certainly is not.

Oh, just trolling then?

I believe it's called 'playing devils advocate' or in this case sarcasm.

Unfortunately sarcasm doesn't come across very well on the internet.

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#116

Post by benj111 »

dylan604 wrote: post #27
patmorgan23 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because someone else might want to remember

[flagged]

So you've never watched an old film? Listened to music from before you were born? Read a book from before you were born?

There was more than enough of this stuff when I was young, but instead of watching police academy 26 I watched something actually good.

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#117

Post by gushie »

So do these collectors have the ability to play back these recordings? If so, could they at least make some recording (even if pointing a camera while playing back would be better than nothing) to send to the BBC. Otherwise if they have no means to play it back, I fail to understand why they'd not want the opportunity to watch their collection!

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#118

Post by Mindwipe »

gwern wrote: post #18
Mindwipe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been a lot of attempts to extort money out of the BBC by people falsely claiming that they have lost episodes over the years, they may simply not believe these claims are as credible as the article suggests.

That doesn't make any sense. OP is about reports that BBC refuses to make any legal promises and talk only vaguely about cooperating with owners, when it would be so easy for them to simply publicly promise to not prosecute material stole before, say, 1990. Obviously, granting 'an amnesty for stolen episodes' is even easier for fake episodes which were never stolen in the first place... The credibility of the claims…

> OP is about reports that BBC refuses to make any legal promises and talk only vaguely about cooperating with owners, when it would be so easy for them to simply publicly promise to not prosecute material stole before, say, 1990.

I'm not sure I buy the article's premise that this is the main issue to be honest. My understanding is that the main problem is simply that some of the people involved just want a bunch of money, and the BBC finds it very hard to countenance why they should pay someone for stuff stolen from them, especially at not very realistic valuations.

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#119

Post by Keloran »

benj111 wrote: post #114
avar wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One argument for a statute of limitations is fading human memory, but I don't see how that's the case here, from the article: > "Discarded TV film was secretly salvaged from bins and skips by staff and contractors who worked at the BBC between 1967 and 1978, when the corporation had a policy of throwing out old reels. [...] “The collectors involved are ex-employees and so are terrified. The rule was that you didn’t t…

Legal or not, the BBC obviously put a value of zero on these things when they threw them away. So who has lost, what value needs to be recovered? There's no reasonable reason for anyone to pursue legal action, it would just be vexatious and / or a waste of tax payer money.

You don’t need a loss to occur for there to be a crime “the trump defense”

If I break into your house, eat your food, but leave money on the counter for the same value, you didn’t make a loss, but I’m sure you would want me to be arrested

Re: Lost "Doctor Who" episodes found but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

#120

Post by P_I_Staker »

doctor_radium wrote: post #95
gwern wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. OP is about reports that BBC refuses to make any legal promises and talk only vaguely about cooperating with owners, when it would be so easy for them to simply publicly promise to not prosecute material stole before, say, 1990. Obviously, granting 'an amnesty for stolen episodes' is even easier for fake episodes which were never stolen in the first place... The credibility of the claims…

Going forward, it would seem like a good idea for the UK government to stop treating the removal of items from garbage bins as a crime. I'm no lawyer, but a quick web search suggests that nowhere in the US is "dumpster diving" considered illegal.

Oh believe me, it's more than considered illegal. It is literally illegal.
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