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KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

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Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#111

Post by flohofwoe »

sidkshatriya wrote: post #109
vlovich123 wrote: post #90

I enabled wayland recently and there’s been a lot of annoyances to the point that I wonder why I bother considering X11 works without these issues. For example: * Chrome needs a bunch of extra flags to launch in Wayland mode * Firefox needs extra flags to launch in Wayland mode * Xwayland is just broken on Nvidia with both sides refusing to compromise (implicit vs explicit synchronization - Nvidia refuses to add impl…

It's possible some of these things are really distro+hw related, but for the sake of argument: > * Chrome needs a bunch of extra flags to launch in Wayland mode I'd rather have to worry about adding a few extra flags than worry about X11. X11 is overcomplicated, over-engineered, barely maintained, is apparently broken from a security angle, ancient... Till today I have found X11 configuration one of the toughest thin…

> Vulkan unlike OpenGL is also quite new.

Vulkan is 7 years old by now. That's the same time span between Direct3D1 (1995) and Direct3D9 (2002).

Wayland is 15 years old now btw.

7 and 15 years should be more than enough time to create stable and robust software libraries.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#112

Post by lupusreal »

addicted wrote: post #30
Pannoniae wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is funny because Comic Sans is actually pretty good from a design and accessibility perspective. The complaints are mostly "fun fonts are not appropriate for a business" and everyone jumped on hating it. But those who are not that stuck-up don't hate it with a passion...

There you go proving that it’s not just that many Linux users have a bad design sensibility, but worse, they will defend bad design as good design. Not only do you defend it, even your defense proves that Comic Sans is a bad design, because matching the needs of what it’s used for (in this case a business setting, where fun fonts are not allowed) is one of the highest factors in good design. And you display another b…

Since we're all being frank and sharing our two cents.. The people who criticize Linux aesthetics often come across as insufferable snobs who are obsessed with small details and have a hard time acknowledging the subjectivity of their personal preferences. If they spent half as much time configuring KDE/etc as they did complaining, then they'd soon have a system that aligns with their preferences.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#113

Post by Wowfunhappy »

flohofwoe wrote: post #111
sidkshatriya wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible some of these things are really distro+hw related, but for the sake of argument: > * Chrome needs a bunch of extra flags to launch in Wayland mode I'd rather have to worry about adding a few extra flags than worry about X11. X11 is overcomplicated, over-engineered, barely maintained, is apparently broken from a security angle, ancient... Till today I have found X11 configuration one of the toughest thin…

> Vulkan unlike OpenGL is also quite new. Vulkan is 7 years old by now. That's the same time span between Direct3D1 (1995) and Direct3D9 (2002). Wayland is 15 years old now btw. 7 and 15 years should be more than enough time to create stable and robust software libraries.

I don't wholly disagree with your conclusion, but it's worth considering some context.

Direct3D versions 1 – 9 were indeed released at a rapid pace, more than one per year on average. However, it took a whole five years before D3D9 was superseded by D3D10, and subsequent releases have also been relatively slow.

Direct3D 12 is eight years old, even older than Vulkan. However, it still feels to me like a "new" API, I think because even now, many games still use DirectX 11.

I'm not sure why this is. Probably some combination of the flattening of the technology curve (hardware used to change more each year than they do today), and the fact that once a technology is more complex, it takes more time to change it, and to adopt those changes. And also, legacy compatibility becomes a concern: in 1995, we didn't have multiple decades of existing code, libraries, tooling, and complete consumer software to migrate and support.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#114

Post by amlib »

MarcusE1W wrote: post #104
brabel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use KDE and MacOS on different laptops. Even though I like KDE , I find that compared to MacOS, KDE is the one that comes out a bit amateurish... the attention to detail in the MacOS UI is just amazing. Am I missing something?? How is KDE better (it really feels much more raw to me, but being on Linux I don't really expect much more)?

I guess MacOS is more polished than KDE. Probably more polished than anything. A few billions here and there help. Given that KDE is an open source community project it’s quite good.

In terms of look & feel, sure Mac OS wins over all other options, but in terms of functionality... its very debatable.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#115

Post by magicalhippo »

sph wrote: post #17
mvelbaum wrote: post #4

KDE is pretty feature-rich, but it is just ugly. Look at the poor use of spacing/margins, the ugly black & white icons, the ugly font, the square edges, and just the overall look & feel. It needs a major face-lift. I dislike the attempts to dumb down GNOME but KDE being ugly makes it really hard to switch to.

I'm gonna be very controversial here, but the problem is that the vast majority of Linux users are blind to aesthetics and design. Perhaps the vast majority of people are. Mind you, being blind to something does not mean it does not exist. Just look at the desktop wallpaper or any font choice of the average person. It's no wonder Comic Sans and Papyrus are the most common fonts in the world, even for formal business…

> the problem is that the vast majority of Linux users are blind to aesthetics and design

I'm not blind to it, but it certainly comes way down on the list compared to other things, like actually working.

As an example, my SO recently bought a new egg timer. She picked it solely based on it looking good. Turns out it's completely useless because you can barely hear it even if it's right in front of you.

Sure, if I'm buying something purely decorative, like a statue a painting, then aesthetics is all I'm going for. But for things I have to use, the thing has to do its job above anything else.

This is something a lot of designers seems to miss. Just look at Windows 11 when it launched, and the completely idiotic decision to force icons to group without text. Sure it looks less cluttered, but it's just like the egg timer, completely useless.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#116

Post by amlib »

JohnFen wrote: post #59
znpy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unironically if that's what you're complaining about, you might have liked kde3 a lot (yes, it's been 15 years and i still miss it). anyway, kde is very configurable so most likely you might bend it to your liking, had you been somehow forced into kde. > KDE being ugly makes it really hard to switch to have you considered XFCE ? to me it's the best so far: it does all the things i need, it's fast and it isn't dumbed…

> you might have liked kde3 a lot (yes, it's been 15 years and i still miss it). You're not the only one. Ah, the poignancy of reminiscing about loves that we've lost.

kde3 with kdemod and the breathtaking choices of _actual_ themes (not just color schemes or "accent color" bs, but a plethora of widget themes that could make it look like anything you wanted plus rich guis to customize any and everything) plus the "emulation" of windows 9x HIG which kde apps back then used to copy and even improve upon was the pinnacle of desktop OS for me. Every major OS has been a major downgrade since... :`(

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#117

Post by michaelmrose »

GuestHNUser wrote: post #107
brabel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use KDE and MacOS on different laptops. Even though I like KDE , I find that compared to MacOS, KDE is the one that comes out a bit amateurish... the attention to detail in the MacOS UI is just amazing. Am I missing something?? How is KDE better (it really feels much more raw to me, but being on Linux I don't really expect much more)?

I think it comes down to preference. I definitely don't think KDE is amateur, but it certainly lacks the fine polish Apple has the money to pay for. That said, I find MacOS frustrating at times because basic things can feel like a pain. Switching between several windows of the same application isn't a simple Alt-Tab; the green button enters full screen mode (KDE/Windows F11 Full Screen is equivalent) instead of leavi…

Ramming against edges doesn't work as well in a multiple monitor arrangement. I forget which environment had this as a default and in what era but one of the smarter defaults I've seen is super(windows key) + keypad numbers. For instance 1: Bottom left quarter, 4: left half, 5: maximize

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#118

Post by onetom »

GuestHNUser wrote: post #107
brabel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use KDE and MacOS on different laptops. Even though I like KDE , I find that compared to MacOS, KDE is the one that comes out a bit amateurish... the attention to detail in the MacOS UI is just amazing. Am I missing something?? How is KDE better (it really feels much more raw to me, but being on Linux I don't really expect much more)?

I think it comes down to preference. I definitely don't think KDE is amateur, but it certainly lacks the fine polish Apple has the money to pay for. That said, I find MacOS frustrating at times because basic things can feel like a pain. Switching between several windows of the same application isn't a simple Alt-Tab; the green button enters full screen mode (KDE/Windows F11 Full Screen is equivalent) instead of leavi…

The built-in Cmd-` (backtick) cycles through the windows of the currently selected app.

I find it better than Context.app, which i did buy and used on a few machines for a few years.

it's like navigating within a sparse table.

columns are the apps, chosen by cmd-tab.

rows are the windows of an app, chosen with cmd-` .

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#119

Post by Dalewyn »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #113
flohofwoe wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vulkan unlike OpenGL is also quite new. Vulkan is 7 years old by now. That's the same time span between Direct3D1 (1995) and Direct3D9 (2002). Wayland is 15 years old now btw. 7 and 15 years should be more than enough time to create stable and robust software libraries.

I don't wholly disagree with your conclusion, but it's worth considering some context. Direct3D versions 1 – 9 were indeed released at a rapid pace, more than one per year on average. However, it took a whole five years before D3D9 was superseded by D3D10, and subsequent releases have also been relatively slow. Direct3D 12 is eight years old, even older than Vulkan. However, it still feels to me like a "new" API, I t…

>I'm not sure why this is.

It's because Windows.

DX9 remained on the frontline for as long as it did because Windows XP was supported from 2001 all the way to 2014 due to usage share. Similarly, DX11 remains on the frontline because Windows 7. I guess it's more apt to say they are because Windows Vista and Windows 8(.1) failed spectacularly respectively, but my point remains.

Since Windows 7 and 8(.1) are both EOL now, more games should start using DX12 Ultimate.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#120

Post by jancsika »

theHamsta wrote: post #13
roenxi wrote: post #10

> - Plasma's start time is up to a few seconds faster. On the one hand, this is impressive. On the other, this is a vague indictment of modern software. Plasma logs you in, draws a background and the taskbar thing across the screen. There shouldn't be seconds involved in that to shave. This must be a recurring feature, every few years someone goes through and fixes up load times.

They mentioned that the culprit for those additional load times was loading all the search backend for their application launcher which they deferred to the moment when there was actually the first search query (still shouldn't take multiple seconds)

> loading all the search backend for their application launcher

Wasn't the whole initial selling point of systemd parallel startup?

Why can't this launcher thing just get set to start up as early as possible, with lowest priority, and be set to not block initialization of anything else?

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