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Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

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111–120 of 275 posts

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#111

I suspect that this is more a "certain managers wanted certain types of employees," as opposed to a systemic, companywide decree from Up High (like IBM's ageism). Apple just makes too damn much money to worry overmuch about salaries. If anything, a lot of managers like H1Bs, because they can drive them like slaves. I've seen exactly that, in front of my own eyes. It's pretty disturbing, if you are a manager like me.

H1Bs are more slave-like. They can't quit easily. That alone is worth a lot.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#112

I suspect that this is more a "certain managers wanted certain types of employees," as opposed to a systemic, companywide decree from Up High (like IBM's ageism). Apple just makes too damn much money to worry overmuch about salaries. If anything, a lot of managers like H1Bs, because they can drive them like slaves. I've seen exactly that, in front of my own eyes. It's pretty disturbing, if you are a manager like me.

It’s pretty disturbing, if you are a good human

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#113
If all their job postings are not actually hiring, then they won’t get any applicants for the jobs that actually are, and then they can use that as evidence that they can’t find in-country candidates.

So basically the only way to find any real job posting is to spam-apply to everything. Is there a service for that?

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#114
post #107

I think this relates to something called batch PERM where they can apply for employment based (EB) green cards for batches of their existing visa employees in similar roles instead of doing recruitment for every single position. Meta got in trouble with the DOJ for the same thing. They advertised for positions in newspapers and only accepted paper applications for PERM positions, unlike their other jobs which are adv…

Legislators can change the rules if they don’t like them and want them changed. They can add the requirement of posting the job online.

Legislators love the status quo. Having a rotating roster of complaint foreign workers whose employers control their visa, you get to keep all their FICA taxes, AND you get to kick them out after 6 years.

It's basically Dubai++

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#115
post #76
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current number is not derived from anything empirical, it's just a number some politicians picked. That’s fine too. If it’s too low, companies can lobby to have it increased. If it’s too high, workers can lobby to have it reduced.

That's thinking of it like some kind of optimal number though, which really isn't the case anyway. There is no fixed sized pie. How many big tech companies were founded or run by immigrants or their children?

There’s absolutely an optimal number. It’s whatever number the citizen’s as a whole decide that number to be. That’s the de facto optimal number.

The auction system to maximize the fees collected would apply regardless of the number of visas.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You will obey your manager or you will be deported" is very powerful.

Yeah.... Except that this is not true. There's not enough talent in US, so we have to seek elsewhere. American graduates have these starry eyes and want to work mostly in two types of companies FAANG or early stage startups... Who's going to go to work at pharma companies, banks, electric companies?

I dunno man I’ve been rejected by a lot of companies over the last ~8 years, seems like they can find talent just fine.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You will obey your manager or you will be deported" is very powerful.

Yeah.... Except that this is not true. There's not enough talent in US, so we have to seek elsewhere. American graduates have these starry eyes and want to work mostly in two types of companies FAANG or early stage startups... Who's going to go to work at pharma companies, banks, electric companies?

Have you seen what pharma companies that aren’t Genentech pay their tech staff? Also they love hiring postdocs to keep the wages down.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#118

Reading into the press release, there is a distinction that probably escapes most native citizens here: they are talking about EB2 visa, not H1B. PERM certification is not the same labor certification done in H1B. PERM is a much more rigorous and demanding process and it costs a lot more money than anything related to H1B. The reason is because it leads to a green card, not just a work permit. Often, it requires an a…

> No such thing as wage depression or abuse at this point because they are for all legal purposes, an equal to any American

Wage depression is a function of being willing and able to work in the field, not of residency type.

Residency type can only depress individual wages for the person with the odd residency.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason companies pay for this process: they are allowed to maintain the worker for as long as the process goes. And for many people this can take up to 10 years, depending on nationality. If they have a good employee, it is a no-brainer to pay so they cannot leave the company, under the penalty of having the green card process cancelled or restarted.

> If they have a good employee I think you mean cheaper employee.

I really don't think Big Tech is using H1-B and greencards to buy fake loyalty or cheaper labor. If your current employer applied for a visa for you, your future employer will too. (To some extent, startups get screwed here, since nobody on an H1-B is going to ditch Apple to work at your startup.) H1-B salaries are public information; and they are exactly the same as what everyone else puts on levels.fyi. I worked at Google; I saw the mandatory H1-B job postings and there was no difference in comp or requirements between my role and the ones being advertised. Filling out paperwork so that every qualified candidate in the world can work there is the cost of doing business; if there were more qualified applicants, they'd hire more people. To the visaholders, this is just another perk for working at a big tech company.

When I clicked the link, I thought this article was going to be something like "non-US citizens get an extra $10k in perks because these companies do all their visa work for them, and US citizens don't need a visa". But it's something much more obscure that doesn't matter.

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