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Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

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Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where exactly is free speech left? Every public platform I’ve used over the last 20 years that had freedom of speech was shut down. Currently if you want to discuss ideas or issues that are outside of the publicly approved consensus, the only choice left is private chats. Even there the options are continually shrinking.

Again I have to roll out the "what topics are you being denied discussion of" question. That usually clears up quite a bit.

In an absolute sense, I can talk about anything as long as I am willing to muck through the mud of low quality noise.

In terms of having actual discussion, sneak laid out a good range of topics that quickly get derailed in flame wars (IME). I'll personally add homelessness and mental health as a few more very touchy topics.

I know high quality, nuanced discussion isn't a 1st amendment right, but that's what the other half of the conversation wants while most argue with the strawman half that wants to be racist/sexist online.

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#112

I have mixed feelings about this. It's just one article. I don't have a lot of context. I can see how their model -- letting people scroll through images until they saw one they liked -- contributed to the issue. I also feel like there are larger societal issues that foster such problems and going after the tech is probably a relatively weak solution that tends to make people comfortable with leaving other issues unr…

> I also feel like there are larger societal issues that foster such problems and going after the tech is probably a relatively weak solution that tends to make people comfortable with leaving other issues unresolved.

that's my feelings and unfortunately going after the middleman is an increasingly popular strategy. It's more a matter of how many lawyers the website can throw at the issue because every single site that allows user hosted content will run into this issue. Sweeping the problem further under the rug instead of funding actual solutions.

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#113

I think parents should take some responsibility here. The park analogy that the creator of omegle made is interesting, we don't shutdown parks because a crime may take place there. And why not just remove video chat completely and keep the text chat and with higher moderation and tools, it should have been possible to keep the problems at bay. We might try to out reason the following argument but I do believe it dema…

>And why not just remove video chat completely and keep the text chat and with higher moderation and tools, it should have been possible to keep the problems at bay.

I am sure that was very possible. But from the tone of the creator's last post, it sounds like this was the camel that broke the camel's back, after years of straw that was already on the way to breaking it. He just sounded like it was becoming harder to manage and affecting his mental health. A single lawsuit will certainly do damage, but it didn't sound like the only factor in closing it down.

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#114

Why use the word survivor for someone who was coerced into taking pics of the self naked and was never physically abused

It's more PR talk and "victim" seems to be becoming more taboo as a descriptive term. I suppose "survivor" has a braver connotation in that they can overcome the trauma, while a "victim" cannot.

Language is certainly interesting.

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at least you agree that is because big companies have enough money to buy enough moderation correct? So in the best case scenario is jut another part of society that small companies are not allowed to participate if they are not rich enough.

If I post CSAM on HN I am 100% going to be reported and sent to jail. HN has only 2-3 mods, yet I don't see a plethora of old men's schlongs on here. Yet Omegle made more money and had more users than HN ever would, but consistently failed at moderation. > small companies are not allowed to participate if they are not rich enough It's been open knowledge to anyone who's been in middle and high school since 2010 (like…

>yet I don't see a plethora of old men's schlongs on here.

if you remember from some months ago, the HN filter has like 66 thousand sites that get auto-filtered. I wouldn't even be surprised if your comment is delayed if you have a link and it isn't from a whitelisted site, or a greylisted site (an imgur image can have a variety of things that you want to check first). When something amiss does get through, enough commenters can flag the content and have it temporarily unviewable until a mod can get to it.

That's hard to do with Omeagle's more intimate setting, and of course live streaming yourself.

>It's been open knowledge to anyone who's been in middle and high school since 2010 (like yours truly) that Omegle is filled with creepy old guys.

may as well expand that to the rest of the internet. Most social media don't work off of live chats, so that's a huge pain point in Omeagle's favor.

And to be frank, they do. They just have more moderation to control that. Wasn't uncommon to have ANY link comment delayed for such reason, if it wasn't outright banned. Words can only do so much damage.

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#116
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parenting a teen is re-forcing values taught earlier in life. Expecting society to share parenting responsibilities doesn't work. It could be safer but it's up to you to decide your family's risk/reward ratio. Safer getting a dick video online then in person and a teachable moment. These dicks are out there in the world. This could belong to your teacher, friend's dad, brother.. if you ever see this again call 911 an…

A child spends more hours of day in school, and under the influence of media (legacy, social and all kinds) and society in general, than with their parents. Unless probably those parents are unemployed and homeschooling the child. Which is its own type of trauma. Any reductionist stance that "only" parents matter and society doesn't, or "only" this or "only" that betrays a lack of basic common sense. A child is a pro…

> A child spends more hours of day in school, and under the influence of media (legacy, social and all kinds) and society in general, than with their parents. Unless probably those parents are unemployed and homeschooling the child. Which is its own type of trauma.

Okay, but I'd still call the parent the most important pillar in a child's life. Not the only one, but they have the most influence on a child. Every child is different, but most children will take a parents' action and words to heart and use those to form a world view. which can end with an accaptance or rejection of the parents'.

>The problem isn't Omegle in particular, but rather how unstructured the Internet is. Anything goes, you can therefore not shape and mold a child's environment to be nurturing and educational

sure you can. plenty of filters and blocks.

The key to elevate this from controlling your kid to parenting is to then explain why those blocks exist. We shouldn't be coy to tell kids that there is danger, that they should know how their body and feelings work, and that there is content they are not ready to view. They may still find workarounds anyway, but hard locks under "because I said so" or "I'll tell you when you're older" caused me to rebel way more than "because there are bad people out there" (as an oversimplified explanation).

And that's the crux that no one seems interested in solving. Why are we so afraid to educate our kids on this stuff?

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#117
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s a flaw in K-Brooks’ argument: The telephone doesn’t connect children and teens directly to sexual predators with the click of a button. Omegle’s model allowed sexual predators to sign on and click through a roulette of people, continuously jumping from one to another until they were face-to-face with who they were looking for. I used to answer the phone as a child and talk to complete strangers.

Yes, but did they pull their dicks out or ask you to undress? Telephone just isn’t a valid metaphor here.

They can. Do people not remember phone sex? Very understandable if you don't want to recall that, but if you are going to compare abuse in another medium you better know the history.

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#118
post #18

If you used Omegle for more than 30 seconds, you'd know it was filled with sexual predators exposing themselves to children. I'm surprised it lasted this long. I'm sympathetic to the creator, I don't think tools should be banned because there are bad users, but Omegle's user base has its reputation for a reason.

yeah, I see a lot of people crying out here about the diminished freedom of speech, but did any of ya'll actually use this? It lasted for maybe a month after its launch as the way it was intended. After that - it was used 90% by perverts

That's not consistent with my experience at all, at least 90% of my conversations were with bots, only some of whom were programmed by perverts

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A child spends more hours of day in school, and under the influence of media (legacy, social and all kinds) and society in general, than with their parents. Unless probably those parents are unemployed and homeschooling the child. Which is its own type of trauma. Any reductionist stance that "only" parents matter and society doesn't, or "only" this or "only" that betrays a lack of basic common sense. A child is a pro…

> A child spends more hours of day in school, and under the influence of media (legacy, social and all kinds) and society in general, than with their parents. Unless probably those parents are unemployed and homeschooling the child. Which is its own type of trauma. Okay, but I'd still call the parent the most important pillar in a child's life. Not the only one, but they have the most influence on a child. Every chil…

Who is "we" who are afraid to educate our kids on this stuff? Adults are former children, raised by parents who are also former children. Basically there's no reason for you to focus your sight like a laser pointer on the parents, because it's all a big system in a closed loop, and picking out superficial criteria like age and parenthood as sole indicators about who the blame should go to is primitive. Sex is easy, and therefore making children is easy. And thank God because if it was hard we wouldn't exist in the first place.

Piling on responsibility on parents for the world they grew up in and are raising their children is one step away from saying "if you can't be a good parent, don't have children" which is one step away from "just don't have children" and that's why "developed" societies are in a deepening demographic collapse.

Also living in a global world is not just about your trinkets being made in China. Internet is a global network and it connects us globally. This "parents have most influence on a child" thing was I'd say valid maybe a century ago. But now parents are much more busy working, and children are engaging much more with society and the world at large, at much earlier age. This is not a choice a family makes. It's imposed top-down from society and its rulers, because the alternative is to not survive. And therefore it's society's responsibility as a whole to get things as straight as possible, before we can attack parents.

Again. Those parents are just products of their own parents and so on. And humans in general have absolutely no clue how this works. We go by vibes and superstition and events like the World Wars, depressions, recessions, cultural revolutions have completely disrupted and wiped out centuries of knowledge on what it means to raise a child, and everyone has to keep rediscovering this for themselves, which means they look out and copy what society gives them. We have no other way to operate. We copy, transform and emit.

But our ability as individuals to transform is limited. This is why you yourself are speaking the languages you speak, have the beliefs you do, you're just an amalgamation of things you saw and heard, and adopted them as your own. Including the belief we should blame the parents. That came from the society you live in. The irony.

Re: Omegle Was Forced to Shut Down by a Lawsuit from a Sexual Abuse Survivor

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A child spends more hours of day in school, and under the influence of media (legacy, social and all kinds) and society in general, than with their parents. Unless probably those parents are unemployed and homeschooling the child. Which is its own type of trauma. Okay, but I'd still call the parent the most important pillar in a child's life. Not the only one, but they have the most influence on a child. Every chil…

Who is "we" who are afraid to educate our kids on this stuff? Adults are former children, raised by parents who are also former children. Basically there's no reason for you to focus your sight like a laser pointer on the parents, because it's all a big system in a closed loop, and picking out superficial criteria like age and parenthood as sole indicators about who the blame should go to is primitive. Sex is easy, a…

>Adults are former children, raised by parents who are also former children. Basically there's no reason for you to focus your sight like a laser pointer on the parents, because it's all a big system in a closed loop,

Society and norms change. My "former children" were whipped by their parents, they didn't pass that down to me (but I was also raised partially by grandparents, who did the same thing). "we" decided spankings weren't acceptable anymore in a relatively recent time frame. But "we" still can't seem to teach future adults about their bodies and that bad people will take advantage of it.

It's a societal issue and I will critique society as they continue to brush the real issue under the rug. Perverts aren't some ancient monster wiped out by war, unfortunately.

>This is why you yourself are speaking the languages you speak, have the beliefs you do, you're just an amalgamation of things you saw and heard, and adopted them as your own.

Indeed. And my society taught me to think critique every practice, and to unshackle from tradition. "because that's how things were done" is the worst justification in my mind. Which you seem to be using to excuse this behavior.

I don't accept it. If only because of this simple norm: if we were thst influenced by our upbringing and this happens, that means we have an entire societal line that thinks it's okay to prey upon children. I hope we aren't taught that by friends or family or education.

>Including the belief we should blame the parents.

If society believed that, this story blaming a website for facilitating the abuse of a child instead of the parents who should have been aware of the child's browsing activity wouldn't be here, no?

I don't really subscribe much to the "you criticize society but you live in one" retort. Societal participation isn't very consentual in and of itself but that's a whole other rabbit hole.

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