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Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

nytimes.com

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Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#111

Post by tuckermi »

votepaunchy wrote: post #80
RockRobotRock wrote: post #71

So many restaurants in my city are credit/debit only. That should be illegal.

It depends on the kind of restaurant, but cash cannot be refused when paying a debt. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

I am unsure what distinction the linked page is trying to draw between payment for goods/services and debt. The first paragraph seems to unequivocally state that businesses do not need to accept cash (from a Federal law perspective anyway).

  There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an 
  organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. 
  Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept 
  cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#112

Post by fencepost »

raincom wrote: post #85
programmertote wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear your story/experience. This worries me because my mother, who currently resides in a SE Asian nation, is transferring some of her money to me (in the hope that she can use it when she migrates to the US). Did Chase let you withdraw the outstanding balance in full when they closed your account? The last thing I want is to see my money being trapped in limbo state...

Yes, they sent me a cashier check for a small balance (around $1000) I left, as Chase gave me 45 days heads up for closure. However, for some people, Chase dragged out until after CFPB complaints are filed. The case one should worry about these banks is this: you deposit a $500K check, or you got a wire for $500K; check was cleared on the sender's side. Now Chase/Big Bank holds your funds, saying that this check is f…

I'm very far from dealing with 500k personal banking transactions, but my immediate thought is that if you're doing so you're probably making mistakes. If it's revenue from sale of a company or similar, move it through escrow with your attorney. If it's a legal settlement, do the same. If you don't have an attorney but are dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars, get an attorney. If it's income from trading or investing it should likely be a transaction from a recognized brokerage which shouldn't raise red flags - and if it's a private investment, see above about an attorney.

And of course if it's business transactions, do it with a business account.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#113

Post by xkekjrktllss »

XorNot wrote: post #99
Ajay-p wrote: post #58

Debanking is deeply unfair but more so in our society that is moving increasingly towards a cash-less society. A person can be debanked for no fault of their own and that causes them to be unable to pay rent, bills, etc. Like being arrested - there is little recourse without great expense or effort.

There's a very obvious utility in the US which should be able to prevent this: The US Postal Service. It's federally required to exist, and services all Americans already. Basic banking services should be one of the things it is expanded to provide in a minimal, safe fashion (i.e. no loans or lending, but guaranteed electronic banking and funds transfer services).

The US Postal Service did serve as a bank from 1910-1966. It should simply restart.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#114

Post by dale_glass »

krupan wrote: post #101
astrange wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin absolutely does not have the privacy of cash! It is cash like in that if you typo the destination address you instantly lose all the money, which is sort of like how you can accidentally set cash on fire.

Serious question, what the are the privacy properties of cash that Bitcoin lacks? Who types destination addresses by hand? Probably the same people that expose a hoard of paper money to flames?

All Bitcoins are trackable on the blockchain, and these days you won't go far before transactions can be connected to an identifiable wallet.

If you've ever said anything like "Donations accepted at $ADDRESS", then everyone can see if anyone ever sent anything, and from there it doesn't take much work to see if you ever spent that money on anything and what else you do with it.

You can obscure things some, but the records are permanent and anything people can figure out stays known. If the authorities are after you, then they can get information from exchanges, which at this point require giving them personal information.

Cash is much more private. It takes much more effort to figure out who you gave your cash to.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#115

Post by Beijinger »

chx wrote: post #74
cft wrote: post #10

Eventually more and more use cases for Bitcoin will emerge, as the government becomes less competent and more reckless with its fiat. It costs $35,000 for a reason.

We just discussed this on the occasion of SBF being convicted as a fraudster: all crypto is a scam. Them being negative sum games makes them so. Whether the scam is a ponzi, a pyramid scheme or something novel is a matter of debate. That it's a scam is not in debate, that's a plain mathematical fact. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/08/bitco... https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/ htt…

Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize winner, does not talk well about Bitcoin:

https://www.investopedia.com/news/what-paul-krugmans-problem...

He also said: " the Internet's Effect on the World Economy Would Be 'No Greater Than the Fax Machines"

I consider Krugeman a clear contra indicator. Bitcon long... :-)

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#116

Post by jdiff »

constantly wrote: post #86
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #78

Protip to anybody who wants to spend an extended amount of time overseas - you’re looking at a strong opportunity to join the list of people who have their accounts closed. Red flags include quantity of overseas debit card transactions, setting a PO Box (this one apparently is a very big red flag to banks) or a PMB as your bank address, lots of wire transfers. Open multiple bank accounts at different banks, use servi…

edit

Crypto has been a scam from the beginning, the only thing that's changed is the public perception after NFTs bombed massively and crypto was once again left without any use case.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#117

Post by krupan »

dale_glass wrote: post #110
krupan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin, not crypto. And poster has to be cryptic and/or sarcastic because even though it's a solution to this very problem staring us in the face, people here shut down any intelligent conversation about it both with down votes and tired, long winded, oft repeated, uninformed arguments against it. It's pretty discouraging, honestly

Bitcoin is crypto. There's even a whole lot of cryptocurrencies based on Bitcoin with a variable or two changed somewhere.

Sorry for the confusion. The term Bitcoin can be used to refer to the code that runs the Bitcoin network upon which the Bitcoin currency/token moves around and is stored. The inventors could probably have come up with different names for each of those things, but what can you do?

Cryptocurrency folks do sometimes take the open source Bitcoin code and make small (or large) changes to it in order to do their work. When they do this they create a separate codebase, separate network, and a separate currency. Almost inevitably they do so in such a way as to greatly benefit themselves and to fool you.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#118

Post by SpaceNoodled »

raincom wrote: post #41

Banks hide behind Bank Secrecy Act and other regulations in order to debank people. Chase closed my account, and the reason Chase gave: "Financial institutions have an obligation to know our customers and monitor transactions that flow through our customers' accounts. After careful consideration, we decided to close your account because of unexpected activity on these or another Chase account." I didn't dispute any t…

Will Chase cancel my mortgage, too?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#119

Post by panarky »

raincom wrote: post #41

Banks hide behind Bank Secrecy Act and other regulations in order to debank people. Chase closed my account, and the reason Chase gave: "Financial institutions have an obligation to know our customers and monitor transactions that flow through our customers' accounts. After careful consideration, we decided to close your account because of unexpected activity on these or another Chase account." I didn't dispute any t…

> Chase monitors your political activity

This is a big claim. It should have big evidence to back it up.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#120

Post by kube-system »

krupan wrote: post #101
astrange wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin absolutely does not have the privacy of cash! It is cash like in that if you typo the destination address you instantly lose all the money, which is sort of like how you can accidentally set cash on fire.

Serious question, what the are the privacy properties of cash that Bitcoin lacks? Who types destination addresses by hand? Probably the same people that expose a hoard of paper money to flames?

Handing someone cash does not create a public ledger entry
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