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Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

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Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#111

Post by viewtransform »

solomonb wrote: post #95
aaronax wrote: post #16

Black locust is basically as good as ipe--competitive in characteristics like hardness and rot resistance, and I think slighly lower in price. It has been used for years for fence posts and now a lumber industry for it seems to be maturing. Apparently it grows like a weed and is even considered invasive in some places. I used black locust for a large porch and am very pleased with it.

Another interesting option is Accoya lumber. It is acetylated softwood performs as well as traditional hardwoods in exterior applications. It looks nice too.

Had to look up the treatment process - it's pickeled wood! https://www.accoya.com/acetylation-what-is-it-and-what-is-ac...

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#112

Post by hcurtiss »

mschulkind wrote: post #103
xyzzyz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laminates are closer to hardwood flooring than to vinyl. Put it in simplest terms, they are basically the same as hardwood flooring, but you can only sand and refinish them maybe once or twice. This limits their lifespan, from 100+ years of full hardwood flooring to “only” a 30-40 years for laminate. Vinyl, on the other hand, is completely different, and is unlikely to survive daily use in serviceable state for more…

I think you're confusing terminology here. Laminate is generally the cheapest option with some sort of plastic over some sort of MDF type material. Definitely no option to refinish. You're describing engineered hardwood, which ironically often cost more than regular hardwood.

I think you're right laminates probably cannot be refinished. But they are definitely much more expensive/premium than vinyl. I think we paid ~$3.50/square foot just in material cost. I think it's a kind of pressed fiberboard on top of a plastic core and a rubber'ish bottom.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#114

Post by hcurtiss »

AlanYx wrote: post #84
hcurtiss wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may be an anomaly, but we have 13.5mm laminates[1] which I'd say were relatively high grade when we put them in. The product we used didn't come with stair kits so we had to do the staircase with oak stained to match. We have two full-size golden retrievers. Eight years later, the laminates look like the day we installed them -- literally. The oak is all scratched up and will take a lot of work to refinish. [2] I…

I'm curious -- are there laminates that wear naturally? Looking at the photos in your second link, I think the laminates would look more natural and less overtly plastic if they did show a little wear similar to the oak.

Living with the laminates, I wouldn't say they look overtly plastic. Hardwoods are definitely shiny too. You can see a very similar grain in the second photo with the oak. You're right that some wear might change the finish, but I would definitely not trade for the wear you see on the oak. My wife's parents have high-end oak hardwoods and full size dogs. Their flooring is a mess.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#115

Post by doctorhandshake »

solomonb wrote: post #96
doctorhandshake wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did an enormous amount of research when replacing my deck this summer and BL was top of my list. My experience trying to source it here in Eastern PA was, to put it mildly, off-putting, as everyone I spoke to wanted to, unprompted, spend the first 30 minutes of the conversation telling me how shady their competitors were, especially when it came to claims of domestic sourcing. I ended up doing a kind of 180 and ins…

How did you like Accoya? I've been thinking about using it for a few projects.

It’s absolutely gorgeous and very very expensive. Unlike the other comment I absolutely can tell the difference between synthetic and natural woods and in general while I don’t have a blanket issue with man-made materials, I do have an issue with ersatz anything, almost to the degree of having an allergy. For that reason I was boxed into real woods, and from a sustainability (and toxicity) and performance perspective, I didn’t find a ton of options beyond black locust or thermally modified or acetylated woods. Accoya was everything I wanted except cheap, and it is clearly real wood, which, sadly, seems luxurious today.

Just installed it so can’t speak to longevity but encouraged by the 50 year warranty against structural issues caused by fungal decay or rot, or against swell or shrinkage > 2.5%.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#116

Post by hindsightbias »

finite_depth wrote: post #102
thomasstephan wrote: post #98

To be spending a lot of time working in the rainforest in Peru where logging (legal and illegal) is everywhere, you can't trace properly. Certificates are easy to forge, the entire pipeline is pen and paper. How can you tell once the legal wood and the illegal wood are in a container which is which? You can't. So many people here are outraged, how many of you are supporting on the ground teams protecting rainforests?…

I wonder if there's a way to tag trees to stop this. Like, spray the protected wood with some harmless-but-detectable dose of a radioisotope so you can tell which wood is which.

shotgun rfid?

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#117

Post by theoreticalmal »

finite_depth wrote: post #102
thomasstephan wrote: post #98

To be spending a lot of time working in the rainforest in Peru where logging (legal and illegal) is everywhere, you can't trace properly. Certificates are easy to forge, the entire pipeline is pen and paper. How can you tell once the legal wood and the illegal wood are in a container which is which? You can't. So many people here are outraged, how many of you are supporting on the ground teams protecting rainforests?…

I wonder if there's a way to tag trees to stop this. Like, spray the protected wood with some harmless-but-detectable dose of a radioisotope so you can tell which wood is which.

Not a bad idea! There would have to be a system for determining lumber that was previously illegal to cut but has since become legal. Maturity of the tree or land ownership changed, etc.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#118

Post by noah_buddy »

finite_depth wrote: post #102
thomasstephan wrote: post #98

To be spending a lot of time working in the rainforest in Peru where logging (legal and illegal) is everywhere, you can't trace properly. Certificates are easy to forge, the entire pipeline is pen and paper. How can you tell once the legal wood and the illegal wood are in a container which is which? You can't. So many people here are outraged, how many of you are supporting on the ground teams protecting rainforests?…

I wonder if there's a way to tag trees to stop this. Like, spray the protected wood with some harmless-but-detectable dose of a radioisotope so you can tell which wood is which.

Or if there’s a way to ruin the wood for woodworking without killing the tree itself. It seems like you would need to do something really clever. Inject it with capsaicin?

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#119

Post by theoreticalmal »

hindsightbias wrote: post #116
finite_depth wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there's a way to tag trees to stop this. Like, spray the protected wood with some harmless-but-detectable dose of a radioisotope so you can tell which wood is which.

shotgun rfid?

That would only be useful until the mill, at which point the tags would be either destroyed, or limited to specific pieces and removed from the rest

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#120

Post by hinkley »

fanatic2pope wrote: post #76
aaronax wrote: post #16

Black locust is basically as good as ipe--competitive in characteristics like hardness and rot resistance, and I think slighly lower in price. It has been used for years for fence posts and now a lumber industry for it seems to be maturing. Apparently it grows like a weed and is even considered invasive in some places. I used black locust for a large porch and am very pleased with it.

Osage Orange is another interesting domestic species that is extremely strong and also resistant to rot. I use it as a contrast wood for projects where I don't mind the colour change from bright orange to black over time. Things like small inlays but especially as pegs for draw bored mortise and tenon joints. A quick online check reveals it is sold in sizes probably useful for building decks.

It is notoriously difficult to dry Osage orange without cracking. If you can get a solid piece it’s extremely durable. Pretty good mechanical properties too. Handles that go for days.

The amusing thing about Osage is we lived in a subdivision that contained the old boundary of a farm, so all of our neighbors had a row of “problem” Osage orange on their back property line. 18” or bigger, tall and looming. And now I know people who actually want it.

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