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Forty years of programming

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Re: Forty years of programming

#111

Post by ozim »

CapsAdmin wrote: post #101

I'm only 33 but never had any issues with joint pains or anything like that whereas my peers, some younger and some older struggle with this and use various methods like ergonomic keyboards, massage sessions, stretching, etc to help ease the pain. I've used a traditional mouse and keyboard since I was around 7 and can easily spend a whole day in front of my computer. Lately I've been wondering if it's simply just my…

I am 36 and I subscribe to notion that no desk or ergonomic chair will help.

Only thing that helps is excercise.

I go to the gym at least 2x a week.

When gyms were closed during lockdowns I did not excercise or had much of movement anyway. Then I got my back hurting and other stuff.

Now I am back at the gym and all issues went away. Also I don’t lift super heavy but moderately like I don’t bench press 100kg so I finish at 70kg usually. So it more important to move than lift heavy. All gym bros will tell you to put on more weights but you don’t have to if it is not your goal. My goal is to be healthy.

Re: Forty years of programming

#112

Post by musha68k »

ozim wrote: post #111
CapsAdmin wrote: post #101

I'm only 33 but never had any issues with joint pains or anything like that whereas my peers, some younger and some older struggle with this and use various methods like ergonomic keyboards, massage sessions, stretching, etc to help ease the pain. I've used a traditional mouse and keyboard since I was around 7 and can easily spend a whole day in front of my computer. Lately I've been wondering if it's simply just my…

I am 36 and I subscribe to notion that no desk or ergonomic chair will help. Only thing that helps is excercise. I go to the gym at least 2x a week. When gyms were closed during lockdowns I did not excercise or had much of movement anyway. Then I got my back hurting and other stuff. Now I am back at the gym and all issues went away. Also I don’t lift super heavy but moderately like I don’t bench press 100kg so I fini…

Also timers; reminding to constantly switch up positioning. Standing, sitting (especially with legs up), now and then lie down position even (e.g. for when reading specs/documentation).

Switching chairs is another one for me. I do have a HAG Capisco at my fully ergonomic standing desk setup but also work from the couch or kitchen table in between.

But yes, exercise is the main pillar; and AFAIR ergonomics basically means no repetitive or same posture or movement over longer stretches of time; body wants to change position and move about.

Lastly, breaking habit of overwork if current work phase allows (always questioning if the case / if working efficiently).

Re: Forty years of programming

#113

Post by amoss »

ozim wrote: post #111
CapsAdmin wrote: post #101

I'm only 33 but never had any issues with joint pains or anything like that whereas my peers, some younger and some older struggle with this and use various methods like ergonomic keyboards, massage sessions, stretching, etc to help ease the pain. I've used a traditional mouse and keyboard since I was around 7 and can easily spend a whole day in front of my computer. Lately I've been wondering if it's simply just my…

I am 36 and I subscribe to notion that no desk or ergonomic chair will help. Only thing that helps is excercise. I go to the gym at least 2x a week. When gyms were closed during lockdowns I did not excercise or had much of movement anyway. Then I got my back hurting and other stuff. Now I am back at the gym and all issues went away. Also I don’t lift super heavy but moderately like I don’t bench press 100kg so I fini…

Rowing is fantastic for this. There is a good balance between cardio workout and strength. If your day job involves sitting in a chair for eight hours a day then the all over effect finds those muscles that you don't use very often and tones them up.

Re: Forty years of programming

#114

Post by d-lisp »

spit2wind wrote: post #106

Stenography is the most ergonomic method of computer input I am aware of. Stenography is a mapping of some combination of keys to some output. A particular mapping is called a "theory". One such mapping is phonetics, or the sounds of words. Let one key represent the "Kuh" sound, another "ah", and a third "tuh". Press them all down and when released, you get "cat". "Al" "Guh" "Or" "If" "Um" "Algorithm". 5 strokes inst…

When I program I write words with two or three strokes thanks to lsp, company, yasnippets and or . On my keyboard tab and return are accessible with my thumbs. I can perform any task related to my window manager, manage multiple monitors and windows with two fingers of the same hand, without moving my hands from the keyboard.

My keyboard is a macro-keyboard by default, "input" is a specific mode of the keyboard, that's vi but for whole desktop.

I type 120+ wpm, most of the keys I can type is an abstraction, the rest are characters.

All of that said, I do think there's no better thing as a split keyboard for controlling ergonomically your computer.

I was interested in stenography, but that's too much work to probably never reach the velocity and comfort I have right now.

Re: Forty years of programming

#116

Post by jdjdjdhhd »

naruhodo wrote: post #98
pugworthy wrote: post #25

I too have been programming for 40 years, am in early 60's, and amazed that I have no real wrist issues from all that time of typing, etc. I've also been a pretty avid WASD + Mouse gamer for a long time as well, and I think gaming probably causes me more issues than programming.

I'm in my early-mid 50s, I've been programming for over 40 years and like you I have experienced more cramps and discomfort from Ctrl/Shift + WASD while gaming than any programming I have done. I am a rock climber, however, so I have some significant muscular development in my forearms. And the thought of that reminds me that from time to time I have had problems with my knees, which started when I was a child. My kn…

I've been using a computer for 30 years and have no pain and not particularly strong... Whatever that means

Re: Forty years of programming

#117

Post by rldjbpin »

i am early in my journey and would like to take preventative measures before i have to overcompensate with fancy equipment when it is too late.

what is it that one can do without spending too much or making overly drastic changes in how we work?

Re: Forty years of programming

#118

Post by marhee »

Ha! Experiences forearm and shoulder pain. Proceeds to mention casually he's into rock climbing. DisplayS photos of games where (jerky) mouse mileage is, to put is mildly, excessive.

Talking about elephants in the room here... I don't think it's the keyboard or mouse, dude! ;)

I've done rock climbing myself. Obviously, it's a huge burden on the ligaments of the upper body. It's also very fun (not in the least because it's a bit scary), but you will feel those wrists a shoulders a bit the next day. Small price to pay, until it because really painful.

I would recommend to the author to try and mix in in some other fun sports like kite-surfing or mountain biking etc. Or dancing (salsa I can recommend if you're open to the latin music). And limit mouse-mileage-heavy gaming a bit maybe? There's a lot of other options (try Return of the Obra Dinn).

Finally, I don't know if other have experienced this, but reflecting a bit on how you do programming can also help. Thinking more, resisting that urge to start typing away did a lot for me personally wrt my wrists and shoulders starting to loving me again. But that may be just me, of course.

Re: Forty years of programming

#119

Post by jillesvangurp »

neilv wrote: post #56

Long-time programmer here who is a typing machine, without discomfort, thanks in part to heeding Internet warnings about RSI circa 1990, and to finding what works for me. One of the things that matters for me when seated at a desk (I also do standing desk) is that I like to be able to have my feet flat on the floor when seated, and then for the keyboard height to be lower than most desks. If you're similar, and you'r…

+1 on arm rests. I hate those. They box you in and lift your elbows uncomfortably high thus cutting off nerves in shoulders and arms. The word arm rest implies that these somehow are about resting your "tired" arms. I've never experienced any form of arm fatigue while using a chair. Just not a thing. Complete anti feature. I don't need them. They come off if I have the choice. I won't buy chairs that have them.

Some of my other tricks include walking a lot (during my commute for example) and generally getting up regularly. I have some mini life hacks like getting a glass of water and not using things like water bottles or tea pots that "allow" you to stay at your desk longer. Anything that forces you to get up is a good thing. A simple stroll to the kitchen is a good thing. Standing desks are great too.

Also, because I figured out that a lot of my issues are shoulder related I do some simple exercises to loosen those once in a while. That's also why walking helps. Swimming is also great. If you sit still for extended periods of time, shoulders tend to cramp up and the nerves to your wrists and hands go through there. Where you feel pain and where the problems are are not necessarily the same thing.

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