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Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

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Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#111

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

> After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the creator of revenue.

Once the copyright for most media stopped being owned by artists and started being owned by corporations there was a lot of value in keeping artistic works locked up by copyright and legally inaccessible to the pubic.

Mostly, it means that companies don't have to worry about old things competing for the time/attention of the people they want spending money on their new things. It also lets them amass huge catalogues of out of print media that can be sold or traded.

It's just one more way that our modern copyright system has been corrupted to work against its original goals, all so that corporations with vast fortunes can get even richer by robbing us of our own culture.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#112

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

I don't know if this would work. Right now, Winnie the Pooh has gone public domain, and if you've seen the reaction to "Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey" or a new video game called "Winnie's Hole"... most people really, really do not like that Winnie the Pooh is being expanded in the horror direction. Some are even calling for copyright to be eternal because the public is showing that it cannot handle public domain r…

> most people really, really do not like that Winnie the Pooh is being expanded in the horror direction.

Those people can make the choice not to buy or consume those kinds of works. That's their right, but it does not and must not infringe on the rights of others who don't share their delicate sensibilities.

> Some are even calling for copyright to be eternal because the public is showing that it cannot handle public domain responsibly.

There is nothing at all irresponsible about artistic works that appeal to some people but not others. Outside of legal constraints, there is no one person or group dictating to the world which art is or isn't responsible and I'm so glad the decision of where those lines are drawn and when they should be crossed is largely left up to the artists when creating and to the audience when consuming. Artists and audiences self-censor all the time and it isn't a problem.

By way of example, when Gaiman was writing Neverwhere he thought it originally made running away and joining a underworld society of homeless people seem fun and magical, and he worried that making homelessness a bit too cool might inspire young readers to make poor choices. He made changes to his story until he felt comfortable with what he was putting out into the world. I think I'd have liked to read his original version, but I fully respect that he felt it would be irresponsible. Not every writer would have made that choice, and certainly not every writer should be forced to.

Every author should be free to decide for themselves if they're comfortable or not with their own words. Audiences should be free to walk away from things that make them too uncomfortable, and free to stay and enjoy what the artist created otherwise. The absolute worst case scenario would be one where the only art we ever have access to is a bunch of watered down, homogenized, G-rated content that doesn't confront or challenge anyone at all.

> There's even a growing argument that copyright actually prevents unoriginal ripoffs and shock content more than it stifles creativity.

I have no doubt that it does, at times, prevent some "ripoffs" or shock content, but I fail to see how censoring art to avoid those things is in any way preferable. The harm to society caused by censorship far outweighs the harm caused by "things exist that I don't like". It simply isn't worth the loss of our freedom to prevent "bad" art.

Worse, even perpetual copyright wouldn't eliminate those things entirely. Shock content, especially those created based on 'wholesome' artistic works has always been with us, and not even copyright has been able to stop it. For just about every franchise you can imagine illegal artistic works created to satisfy 'Rule 34' exist and illegal fan fiction can be found filled with sex and gore. None of it has caused society to collapse. It won't destroy society when that art can be legally made and sold either.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#113
Every generation I wonder when it’s worth it to buy games digitally so I can transfer them over to the following console.

So far I have yet to see Nintendo make any effort and it really should be a crime. These things are literal PC’s and tablets, there is no technical obstacle anymore.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#114
post #27
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should society protect copyright for goods that are discontinued? Discontinuation of a product is generally a financial decision; in essecne you are making a public declaration that the product is unprofitable and throwing up your hands. Your right to protection against piracy should end when you discontinue a product.

That argument extends far beyond digital goods. There are a myriad of great physical books, albums, games, boardgames, etc. that are out-of-print, and so the only legal way to experience them is to find somebody with a copy and borrow/rent/buy it from them. The IP rightsholder has decided it is no longer profitable to make more. So the problem you describe is exactly the same for physical media. I mean, I'm not sayin…

> The IP rightsholder has decided it is no longer profitable to make more.

That's rarely the case. Most of the time rightsholders want to keep old works out of circulation because they would compete with the new works they are promoting and want people spending their money on instead.

There are some physical works that are expensive enough to produce that profit can be an issue, but things that are extremely inexpensive to produce such as paperbacks or disk media (CD/DVD/bluray) still go out of print all the time. It's not that those artistic works couldn't make the corporation a profit. It's just that the company is betting that they can make higher profits by keeping those works out of the hands of the public, which is deplorable.

I can't blame a company for not producing something that actually won't make them money, but corporations locking away our culture for more than a century just so that they can maximize their profits is a sickening example of pure avarice that copyright law wasn't originally intended to allow for.

The real issue with physical products is that they're harder for the public to duplicate. If I could copy a complicated out of print board games as easily as I could an out of print album on MP3, I'd argue that we should have the right to do that too. 3D printers haven't caught on to the point where there's one in every home, or it might even be possible.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#115
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just describing a potential disincentive. It's not a straw man. That's why the notion of expiring copyright works out. I didn't suggest removing that. And sure, there's plenty of room in between there. What would call for, then? If there is any demand, the owner of the work needs to front the expense to fulfill it, otherwise lose the rights to the work? There are lots of ways for this to go wrong. Anyway, copyrig…

> If there is any demand, the owner of the work needs to front the expense to fulfill it, otherwise lose the rights to the work? This discussion started with the topic of video games, and this thread is about digitally distributed video games. The upfront work needed to host an executable online is essentially zero, especially when there are platforms like HumbleBundle, GoG, and Steam which will do the hosting for yo…

> This discussion started with the topic of video games

not really

>> Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder why digital games usually go the same price of physical media, then if their ownership is conceptually different.

They're no longer conceptually different in the case of discs (though maybe for the cartridges Nintendo still uses). Inserting a disc into a ps4 for the first time often just triggers a download for all of the game data, rather than copying from disc. Add to the fact new releases are heavily patched these days which requires download. At least in the ps3 era launch titles were a fairly complete product. Once Sony pha…

I understand and agree, but I cannot fathom why anyone invests on Nintendo's digital platform, as they cycle completely every 5-10 years (e.g. Wii Virtual Console).

The games are great, but the way they milk their pĺayers on recycled content on _____ platform is insane.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#117
post #79
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I hate blockchains, but I feel like they're the ultimate solution for digital goods. I don't want to own NFTs for their own sake as "speculative assets" or "stores of value" or nonsense like that, but an NFT that is my certificate of ownership of a copy of like a videogame or a streamable movie, etc. would just make sense. Combine that with a requirement that (a) binaries be freely redistributable, and (b)…

Nobody is doubting ownership. The problem is your (a).

If the binaries are freely redistributable but worthless without the blockchain auth, then it's harmless to let any torrent site host them, right?

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#118
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument extends far beyond digital goods. There are a myriad of great physical books, albums, games, boardgames, etc. that are out-of-print, and so the only legal way to experience them is to find somebody with a copy and borrow/rent/buy it from them. The IP rightsholder has decided it is no longer profitable to make more. So the problem you describe is exactly the same for physical media. I mean, I'm not sayin…

> The IP rightsholder has decided it is no longer profitable to make more. That's rarely the case. Most of the time rightsholders want to keep old works out of circulation because they would compete with the new works they are promoting and want people spending their money on instead. There are some physical works that are expensive enough to produce that profit can be an issue, but things that are extremely inexpens…

That's a distinction without a difference, imho. Either IP that the owner has decided to stop selling should be free to reproduce, or it shouldn't, regardless of their justification and the medium.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#119
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you expect companies to keep their online servers running indefinitely? For the benefit of a few dozen players playing at a time, at best? Splatoon was released almost a decade ago, barely has any players active, offers a single player mode and has had two sequels released since. Also, if online functionality was available 50 years ago, the exact same problem would have hit Atari games. The technology just hadn't…

> Do you expect companies to keep their online servers running indefinitely? I expect the games I paid for to continue to be playable with the same features they had when I bought them, I don't care what the developer thinks or how many other people are playing it. If they don't want to host the servers anymore, they should give me a way to host my own. Plenty of multiplayer PC games released 2 decades ago can still…

Exactly. That's why I come back to a simple set of requirements for "physical media equivalent" software:

- Transferrable interminable software license (blockchain is a decent way to implement this but by no means the only one).

- Free dedicated server binaries for both game-servers and master-servers.

- Configurable server (or masterserver) connection within the client.

Old FPS 90s games actually hit pretty close to this. Binaries were easy to copy, dedicated server binaries were free and you could connect by IP, and realistically if you uninstalled first you could give somebody else the CD key and CD and it would probably work.

The only missing piece is that if the master/auth server went down the party was over.

Yes the security issues would make it unsafe to play with strangers, but the game would exist in an archival form that is no longer a thing for newer games.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is any demand, the owner of the work needs to front the expense to fulfill it, otherwise lose the rights to the work? This discussion started with the topic of video games, and this thread is about digitally distributed video games. The upfront work needed to host an executable online is essentially zero, especially when there are platforms like HumbleBundle, GoG, and Steam which will do the hosting for yo…

> This discussion started with the topic of video games not really >> Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc.

> Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc.

The pedantic point being that this started with video games and then was extended to other works. But fine let's talk about everything else too.

Everything on that list can be sold digitally.

Even physical works can, to a large degree, be made to order and drop shipped.

But again this is beside the point. These are the technicalities of how it would be implemented and beside the real point: if you have not been selling a copyrighted work for some length of time (between 1 minute and 3 decades) you should no longer have the right to that government granted monopoly since you are no longer using it for the reason it was given to you.

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