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It's okay to make something nobody wants

zhangluyao.com

111–120 of 208 posts

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#111

I wasted a lot of my life being too scared to make something out of fear. This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses, that didnt make every perfect decision for their product. Life is more enjoyable in a create-fail-learn loop than a consume-criticize-gloat loop. I wish I'd learned that sooner.

This is something I learned being in bands. Fame and fortune weren’t in the story, but because we made the music we wanted to hear, I have an album and 3 EPs worth of music that I can listen to and enjoy, over a decade later.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#112
post #2

"I think it’s okay to make something that nobody wants. All you need to do is to make sure you’ve fully expressed your emotions in this product." Having hobbies is fine, but it's not a business model.

Indeed. Also less peoples hobbies should try to be a business. It's ok to do something for fun.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#113

I wasted a lot of my life being too scared to make something out of fear. This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses, that didnt make every perfect decision for their product. Life is more enjoyable in a create-fail-learn loop than a consume-criticize-gloat loop. I wish I'd learned that sooner.

A negative reception to putting a product out there is actually a really great outcome. It shows you are doing something right if this happens.

The expected and typical outcome is to be completely ignored - crickets. This is perhaps the main reason you should not fear shipping!

I have a post which elaborates on this if it's interesting for anyone: https://davnicwil.com/negative-feedback-is-positive/

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#114

I wasted a lot of my life being too scared to make something out of fear. This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses, that didnt make every perfect decision for their product. Life is more enjoyable in a create-fail-learn loop than a consume-criticize-gloat loop. I wish I'd learned that sooner.

> This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses The toxic ones are especially cruel to people that have special genius. And the toxic ones usually consider themselves the deep well of genius. Anything that threatens that perception incurs ire. You can find this in places where there is a, "pecking order" and someone who comes along with a new inspiration gets beat d…

well said

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#115

Interesting how this is only really a problem today, 10-20 years ago most of what we built and shared was things we wanted to build. Things that were cool, and awesome. But now we have to explicitly say it's OK that what we build isn't a unicorn start up idea. Not feasible for a global business. Hacker news comments always include how the idea can't be a business or is pointless, impractical etc. Is it because money,…

It could be that what we're making is different today. When I was a teenager, there was no Internet. The thing we made, was the thing we made.

Today, what we're making is the exhibition of the thing we're making. I'm guilty of this, thinking about the blog that I'll write about something, when it doesn't even work.

And is it wrong? I wouldn't enjoy playing music nearly as much if I didn't have a chance to perform in public once in a while.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#116
Making something you like, and not some BS trying to triangulate the needs of some hypothetical user, is a very enjoyable way to go about a career in design and engineering. I'm lucky to be in that boat and have the ability to work on something I personally use as well. It makes so many things easy: I can have an insight from using the product myself, build a solution for it, ship it, and in general users share the same insight and appreciate it.

However, as I enjoy this, what often gives me pause about it is thinking about fields like medical device development, or services for the poor, where most people working on the product aren't in the market for that product. I don't think the same ethos applies as well there and it probably means that to accomplish something meaningful in these domains, a hefty dose of cognitive empathy is necessary, as well as checking one's own insights regularly to make sure we're not imagining things.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#118

I wasted a lot of my life being too scared to make something out of fear. This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses, that didnt make every perfect decision for their product. Life is more enjoyable in a create-fail-learn loop than a consume-criticize-gloat loop. I wish I'd learned that sooner.

> This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses The toxic ones are especially cruel to people that have special genius. And the toxic ones usually consider themselves the deep well of genius. Anything that threatens that perception incurs ire. You can find this in places where there is a, "pecking order" and someone who comes along with a new inspiration gets beat d…

I can understand how this conclusion is reached, but I would position that it's less about the specific skill in any given subject and more just about a person's own perception of what is and is not appropriate for interpersonal actions. I know a lot of incredibly smart and gifted people in the programming sphere who are the most gregarious and kind persons you might ever meet, ready to help on just about any problem they're able to -- I've also met the types you're mentioning, and I'm not sure that their way of handling themselves is a requirement or even characteristic for such genius.

Bumping into such personalities when it comes to their subject matter of expertise might be a challenge, sure. They are sure of themselves, direct to a fault, and it takes a lot to get them to reconsider their point of view or even explain it sometimes as they tend to get pretty dogmatic about it. It can be tempting to associate this with their skill level in the subject matter, but I see the same boisterous bravado from the C-levels and VPs when they decide there is something they _must_ opine on without having any knowledge in the domain.

In my experiences, those who just react "screw you guys I'm going home" when challenged aren't quite the superstars they present themselves as; the real superstars are far more open to their ideas being challenged because, in my experience again, they _like_ that sort of challenge. It's not earth shattering for their ego to be corrected, it's a moment of embarrassment, then a moment of appreciation as their mental model adjust and they begin to realize how many axioms they've held based of their previously incorrect logic begin to change/drop away, and they are unburdened by this correction, not harmed.

That is to say, I'm not sure that it's at all related to the skill level or special geniuses, it's just too easy to fall into a perception for oneself of "smart people are always right and when someone challenges them, the only correct path is to assert dominance above all else"; I don't think you need to tie such behavior to any particular industry or skillset, I can guarantee you that this happens in virtually all spheres.

With regards to the article, I think the author maybe has the start of a well developed idea that is marred by trying to associate it with success in the tech world; Steve Jobs may have bucked trends in the industry by going all-in on a nascent technology which ended up making Apple the household name for smartphones; I don't think it was out of any particular inspiration except that "this is coming anyways, and it's gonna make us a shitload of money"; Jobs might have known when he was wrong, but from the stories available, doesn't seem he was often humble about it.

But I would propose don't associate that kind of toxicity with the field; there are a lot of things that encourage such behavior, sure, but I think a lot of this is just the same outdated/ineffective ideas of leadership and decision making that have plagued the world for some time -- it's quite fast to see that this is in just about any community that gets big enough, and it's not exactly a game we _have_ to play, it's just one we continue to play for whatever reason...†

† Addendum: This is not to speak of workplace hierarchies and the ridiculousness that is the structure of a Corporation. From personal experience, such hierarchical power is absolutely a farce, the same in my mind as a pyramid scheme. My reasoning for this is that despite my very fancy title and rapid rise to this title, I know that the title is only useful so long as the person I'm talking with is willing to give it power. My colleagues will absolutely "go over my head" instead of discussing items with me if they don't get the answer they like right away, and our clients will do the same. I think the sooner we can do away with such stringent and pointless hierarchies the better, as it's hard for me to see them as anything but a show to allow the people with real power in such hierarchies to get their way.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#119

I wasted a lot of my life being too scared to make something out of fear. This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses, that didnt make every perfect decision for their product. Life is more enjoyable in a create-fail-learn loop than a consume-criticize-gloat loop. I wish I'd learned that sooner.

> This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out

This isn’t toxicity. This is normal human behaviour. Either you deal with it yourself internally or you will be suffering it forever.

Maybe this is why childhood trauma helps sometimes at being an entrepreneur (I have first hand experience), being bullied made sure I didn’t really care about negative feedback later on in life.

My point is calling it toxic doesn’t help. It doesn’t help you, because you place your own self worth in someone else’s hands. This is bad. Secondly, you’ll never change this, because it’s normal. People don’t like new things, except for a few exceptions. You have to build something really cool or people won’t care. Society just isn’t some 100% love, accepting place. Sorry. Evolution didn’t make it that way. Society doesn’t have an obligation to you to be nice.

But that’s the whole point of this article too. Just build stuff you enjoy. Who cares what others think? Stop blaming society for your issues.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#120

Interesting how this is only really a problem today, 10-20 years ago most of what we built and shared was things we wanted to build. Things that were cool, and awesome. But now we have to explicitly say it's OK that what we build isn't a unicorn start up idea. Not feasible for a global business. Hacker news comments always include how the idea can't be a business or is pointless, impractical etc. Is it because money,…

We should be wary of nostalgia for an idealized past that never existed. If you look at the semiconductor industry in the 1960s, the personal computer revolution in the 1970s and 1980s, and the dot-com boom in the 1990s, there was always a mix of motivations for working on technology.
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