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AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

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Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#111

Post by csomar »

bradley13 wrote: post #93

Can we go back in time and hit the designers of IPv6 upside the head? The decision not to make IPv6 backwards compatible, the belief that a beautiful new standard could magically replace something already so widespread... "Naive" is an inadequate word. We are still futzing with the transition 3 decades later, with no end in sight. Grrr, grumble...

Yeah, I never got any of the articles about how well IPv6 is designed. Any article will get me confused about whether an IPv6 address is a range, a computer, a router, or something that points to a resource inside my computer. (I guess it's all of these things?).

But the biggest problems of all: You can write an IPv4 address on a phone call. You might be even able to remember it. Not the case for IPv6, you need to be an expert in Hex and remember the specs design. I can't do it as a developer, I don't think normal people will be able to do it either.

IPv4 is useful because it's just a number (at least from a person's perspective). It works. Just add a letter to it and then you have x26 the capacity.

Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#112

Post by mahkoh »

jedberg wrote: post #50
jandrese wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have some misconfiguration on your local network. It's hard to tell from your description, but I'd guess maybe you don't have the firewall rules configured for IPv6 or something. Breakage is extremely rare on the live web. I can't remember the last time I found a website that was only breaking on IPv6.

> You have some misconfiguration on your local network I’m sure I do. But that’s sort of the point. I only use standard commercial hardware with the default config. If that doesn’t work out of the box, what chance does someone who doesn't have my decades of networking experience have in fixing it? Granted I’m probably more sensitive than most because I know what network issues look like. Most people probably just thi…

You have decades of networking experience but you are unable to get ipv6 to work, something that over 40% of internet users are using daily.

[1] https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html

Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#113

Post by jedberg »

mahkoh wrote: post #112
jedberg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have some misconfiguration on your local network I’m sure I do. But that’s sort of the point. I only use standard commercial hardware with the default config. If that doesn’t work out of the box, what chance does someone who doesn't have my decades of networking experience have in fixing it? Granted I’m probably more sensitive than most because I know what network issues look like. Most people probably just thi…

You have decades of networking experience but you are unable to get ipv6 to work, something that over 40% of internet users are using daily. [1] https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html

I can get it to work just fine. It just doesn't work as well as IPv4 and I can't be bothered to figure out why.

I'm in that 40%. I use IPv6 on my phone whenever it's not in my house.

Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#114

Post by cdchn »

speedgoose wrote: post #106
JakobH wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your solution?

Not OP nor a recognised network expert but here is my suggestion: IPv10. The next IP version number that is unassigned, that is conveniently 4+6. Basically something that is not breaking compatibility with IPv4 and doesn’t require those dual network stacks nonsense.

How do you not break compatibility with IPv4 while also getting more bytes in the address?

Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#115

Post by LatticeAnimal »

nash wrote: post #103
kristopolous wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vint Cerf has called the decision of it being 32 bits as silly and arbitrary, like having a car odometer with 40 digits. If he had pushed for more, he thought nobody would have taken him seriously. The idea of 32 becoming scarce was laughable. Also the complaint about ipv6 isn't a technical one, it's a usability one. Extending it to 48 bits would have been easy enough for people - like international calling. Those 16…

Only network engineers should see or care about IP addresses. The fact IPv6 addresses use colons is why people don't use IPv6 is the worst take I've ever heard.

I host a few video game servers for my friends and love the fact that I can say my easy to remember IPv4 address aloud whenever they forgot it.

I have an IPv6 address but haven't bothered memorizing it or giving it out because it would just be more hassle.

Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#116

Post by nikanj »

nash wrote: post #103
kristopolous wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vint Cerf has called the decision of it being 32 bits as silly and arbitrary, like having a car odometer with 40 digits. If he had pushed for more, he thought nobody would have taken him seriously. The idea of 32 becoming scarce was laughable. Also the complaint about ipv6 isn't a technical one, it's a usability one. Extending it to 48 bits would have been easy enough for people - like international calling. Those 16…

Only network engineers should see or care about IP addresses. The fact IPv6 addresses use colons is why people don't use IPv6 is the worst take I've ever heard.

But only network engineers pick the protocols used. You’re making life harder for the very people who should be your primary audience.

PS: As a developer, I often read logs and go ”oh yeah, that’s just our satellite office IP”. 192.168.1.110 is the network printer, etc. There’s no hope of recognizing IPv6 addresses at a glance the same way.

Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#117

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

nash wrote: post #103
kristopolous wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vint Cerf has called the decision of it being 32 bits as silly and arbitrary, like having a car odometer with 40 digits. If he had pushed for more, he thought nobody would have taken him seriously. The idea of 32 becoming scarce was laughable. Also the complaint about ipv6 isn't a technical one, it's a usability one. Extending it to 48 bits would have been easy enough for people - like international calling. Those 16…

Only network engineers should see or care about IP addresses. The fact IPv6 addresses use colons is why people don't use IPv6 is the worst take I've ever heard.

I can see plenty of situations where colons behaviour might be confusing, let’s start with a http url on a non standard port with credentials embedded, I assume something close to http://01:02@03:04:05:06:07:8000/foo/bar would be a valid url,

Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#119

Post by piperswe »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #117
nash wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only network engineers should see or care about IP addresses. The fact IPv6 addresses use colons is why people don't use IPv6 is the worst take I've ever heard.

I can see plenty of situations where colons behaviour might be confusing, let’s start with a http url on a non standard port with credentials embedded, I assume something close to http://01:02@03:04:05:06:07:8000/foo/bar would be a valid url,

Close, it would be more like http://01:02@[03:04:05:06:07:08:09:10]:1112/foo/bar

Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B

#120

Post by cdchn »

atyvr wrote: post #2

correct, direct url is https://toonk.io/aws-ipv4-estate-now-worth-4-5-billion/index... More interestingly, perhaps, is a forward look at how much new revenue AWS will generate once AWS starts charging ($44 per IP per year) as of 2024. I think it's not unlikely that AWS will generate a few hundred million to a billion in additional revenue with this new charge.

I suppose a sufficiently motivated individual could look at something like Shodan, see how many of those IP addresses AWS owns are active (and fudge it by some factor to account for how many of those IP addresses are used by AWS themselves) and multiply it by their new IP address billing.
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