Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms experts • Hacker News Board

Re: Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms experts

#111

Post by HonestOp001 » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 1:43 AM UTC

wallhack wrote: post #102

dgan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are implying there are candidates who do not impede response to climate change: even the Greens are against nuclear, which in my understanding, is totally unproductive. They are also still debating "décroissance", that is "de-growth". I find crazy that no one even mentionned the word "efficiency" as in "we might not need all the resources we consume to produce everything we do today. Let's set a realistic efficie…

Great point. Finding consensus on a solution is problematic. I was referring to people who deny that climate change is even real. I would love to get to the stage of debating how to fix things, instead of being stuck in the stage of complete denial.

Climate change or anthropogenic climate change is a starting point for this issue.

We have had climate change since day one of earth. We can see it in the charts, data, etc. the issue is how much impact do the humans contribute?

If people were serious about carbon footprint, nuclear power plants would be built. But we are not serious, instead we have grifting policies that lead to wasted solutions: Solyndra, wind farms, solar farms, etc.

Then on top of all of this, the people in charge find ways to encourage coal, look at how Germany and the rest of the first worlds tried to bankrupt Pakistan by driving up the price of natural gas. Pakistan, China, and every country who saw that are going with coal.

The people who say climate denialism should not be tolerated are not serious about what they propose, because their solutions are not based in reality.

Re: Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms experts

#112

Post by jaybrendansmith » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

unpopular42 wrote: post #105

jaybrendansmith wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should just hope this all away? That's a deeply childish viewpoint, and hoping is not a reliable plan. It will require many things: Carbon regulation plus geo-engineering plus improved power systems plus personal sacrifice. But where that starts is legislation. This is how we solved acid raid, the ozone layer, lead-based fuels and paints, and oh so many other environmental externalities. Individuals cannot solv…

> So we should just hope this all away? No, absolutely not! > But where that starts is legislation. No, absolutely not! Where it starts is invention and invention is currently severely hindered by regulation, alarmism and skewed incentives. Why would a bright mind work on nuclear physics if you can make more money as a lawyer?

But that's not where we are. Without $$ incentive, nobody is going to build what is needed to remove the carbon or mitigate the effects of warming. The market is not magically going to solve anything if we simply remove regulation, that is a strawman. The market needs incentives, as well as restrictions. When we solved the ozone layer, we first restricted chloroflorocarbons to stop the bleeding, then we added incentives to create replacements. And it worked. It's not alarmism that's the issue here, it's heads in the sand.

Re: Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms experts

#113

Post by wallhack » Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

solardev wrote: post #103

wallhack wrote: post #33

Vote out any policy maker who impedes the response to climate change. This is not something we fix as individuals, with feel-good home solutions, recycling, or planting trees. Large industry is destroying our world, on purpose, because of greed. This only gets fixed through policy and regulation. Vote.

Policy won't change unless the two party gridlock does. Even when the Dems take power (like now), nothing really happens. It's just lip service at best.

I think this false equivalency is damaging.

Republicans are in favor of dismantling and eliminating the EPA and clean energy initiatives, for instance. Democrats aren’t great either, but Republican policies are measurably at least an order of magnitude worse.

Re: Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms experts

#114

Post by solardev » Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

wallhack wrote: post #113

solardev wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policy won't change unless the two party gridlock does. Even when the Dems take power (like now), nothing really happens. It's just lip service at best.

I think this false equivalency is damaging. Republicans are in favor of dismantling and eliminating the EPA and clean energy initiatives, for instance. Democrats aren’t great either, but Republican policies are measurably at least an order of magnitude worse.

I'm just being realistic here. Two decades of flip-flopping party power, and has the climate gotten any better?

Every single election cycle we have this discussion. "Well, at least the Dems are better than the Republicans. They're the best we can get." It's not enough. Hasn't been enough for a long time.

Re: Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms experts

#115

Post by pauldenton » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 12:19 AM UTC

edhelas wrote: post #11

jiofj wrote: post #6

(They began counting in 1981)

Do I feel some climatoscepticism, or at least climatodenialism in this message ?

Comparing criticisms of data, (testing of data being a key part of science) to denying the Holocaust isn't going to win anyone over. We've heard many inaccurate predictions before, an easy one being "2 Weeks to flatten the curve" or "If you get vaccinated you'll have a 98% protection rate and can no longer catch Covid"

Re: Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms experts

#116

Post by pauldenton » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

NhanH wrote: post #71

nxm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I vote out Chinese and Indian policy makers where bulk of coal power plants are continuing to be built?

China is the #1 builder in all renewable (and nuclear too) by a significant margin You are going to need to also propose a solution beyond "stay poor" for the country.

China is also building 2 Coal Power plants a week, and China is building six times more new coal plants than other countries https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-...