37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time • Hacker News Board

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#111

Post by core-utility » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

Calavar wrote: post #61

turnsout wrote: post #28

Man, talk about a ship that has sailed. I was 100% anti-subscription pricing for a very long time. Eventually I realized, it's better for the software vendor and the customer. Final Cut Pro used to cost $999 upfront, now a teenager can use Final Cut on their iPad for $7/month, and subscribe only when they need it.

That pricing sounds fair. Unfortunately, I feel that's the exception. Adobe Dreamweaver CS6 was $400 [1]. Now Dreamweawer Creative Cloud is $250 per year [2]. So after 1.75 years, you've already taken a loss. [1] https://prodesigntools.com/products/adobe-cs6-pricing-list.h... [2] https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

What would be more interesting is to compare over 10 years for someone who buys upgrades (CS2->CS3->CS4 etc.) as they come out.

Additionally the individual Dreamweaver price is very high compared to "All Apps" plan at $660 per year.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#112

Post by znpy » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

turnsout wrote: post #28

Man, talk about a ship that has sailed. I was 100% anti-subscription pricing for a very long time. Eventually I realized, it's better for the software vendor and the customer. Final Cut Pro used to cost $999 upfront, now a teenager can use Final Cut on their iPad for $7/month, and subscribe only when they need it.

15 years ago most teenagers i knew had the full office suite, photoshop and most other softwares for free. I'm not gonna tell you how, but it's easy to imagine.

Guess what, those people wouldn't have paid for a license anyway, so no real license money is lost.

More importantly, it needs to be said that if you got an older computer you could just use an older version of the software, no problem. Now you can't do that anymore. You not only have to pay the 7$/month, you also need to buy a new ipad every once in a while.

I'm still anti subscription. I do pay for software (paid 150 euros out of my personal pocket last year for a SecureCRT license and i love it).

But the whole subscription thing is just BS.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#113

Post by mercwear » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

gkedzierski wrote: post #77

tough wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? That they pinoeered the current meta should be more indicative that they are ready to move from it than stay on it forever. Good for them I guess, I do hope we see more custom artisan software out there and less VC SaaS milkcows

How much of that is just "contrarian as a marketing tactic"?

IMHO, all of it. The real winner is whoever they bought "Once.com" from, good for that person =)

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#114

Post by wlesieutre » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

turnsout wrote: post #28

Man, talk about a ship that has sailed. I was 100% anti-subscription pricing for a very long time. Eventually I realized, it's better for the software vendor and the customer. Final Cut Pro used to cost $999 upfront, now a teenager can use Final Cut on their iPad for $7/month, and subscribe only when they need it.

But that's not how the subscription pricing goes. Final Cut Pro X was $299, not $999 so it's not even a good example.

One the other end of the spectrum are all the mobile apps that start as a $2.99 one time purchase, add a bunch of features, and say "Actually it'll be $11.99/year forever thanks."

When every app starts to do that it adds up fast.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#115

Post by dbg31415 » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

Calavar wrote: post #61

turnsout wrote: post #28

Man, talk about a ship that has sailed. I was 100% anti-subscription pricing for a very long time. Eventually I realized, it's better for the software vendor and the customer. Final Cut Pro used to cost $999 upfront, now a teenager can use Final Cut on their iPad for $7/month, and subscribe only when they need it.

That pricing sounds fair. Unfortunately, I feel that's the exception. Adobe Dreamweaver CS6 was $400 [1]. Now Dreamweawer Creative Cloud is $250 per year [2]. So after 1.75 years, you've already taken a loss. [1] https://prodesigntools.com/products/adobe-cs6-pricing-list.h... [2] https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

It’s been along time since Adobe was that cheap. (=

I don’t want to defend Adobe, but inflation is real.

And they used to have upgrades that cost less money.

I think this price is more or less what it used to be, the real advantages of that everyone’s just up-to-date all the time.

I can’t imagine trying to support software on like 20 different versions, that would’ve been insanity for the support team.

Keeping everyone on one version is probably the real cost savings money maker for Adobe here. =P

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#116

Post by wilg » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

My main problem with 37signals is that none of their products appeal to me. In theory, I've been in the target audience for all of them but their strange design choices often miss the mark entirely. But it's good people can make a living making niche things.

Also, I agree I don't understand the purpose of announcing a pricing model, but maybe they just needed something to put on their nice domain.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#117

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #80

turnsout wrote: post #28

Man, talk about a ship that has sailed. I was 100% anti-subscription pricing for a very long time. Eventually I realized, it's better for the software vendor and the customer. Final Cut Pro used to cost $999 upfront, now a teenager can use Final Cut on their iPad for $7/month, and subscribe only when they need it.

Exactly. If you used to need to use software for a weeklong project, you'd have to pirate it because there was no way to justify the cost. Now you just sign up for a month and then cancel. It's a huge improvement in flexibility and paying for what you use. Not to mention the software is always updated, so you don't need to worry about whether your image editor you purchased 7 years ago supports the RAW format of the…

> Now you just sign up for a month and then cancel.

Or you sign up and then Adobe does everything in its power to stop you from cancelling, including lying to your face: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10930079 (https://web.archive.org/web/20170324161306/http://www.geek.c...). Just because subscriptions can work out well doesn't mean they don't get abused by companies.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#118

Post by doublerabbit » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

methodical wrote: post #82

doublerabbit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, my mother uses photoshop and illustrator, she can't afford the ever increasing price of subscription services. She's in her 70's. It a distraught for her to think of losing access to her creatively outlet if she was to unable to afford the current subscription model. Subscriptions should be followed up with a perpetual license. She's just glad she forked out on CS2 when it was DVD based.

Have you ever looked at Affinity ( https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/ )? I bought their universal license a year or so ago and would definitely recommend it over Adobe for anybody who doesn't necessarily need to use Adobe, it's a lifetime license and the product is pretty comparable to Photoshop/Illustrator for whatever a hobbyist could need. I would strongly recommend giving them a look if you haven't already.

Thanks for the recommendation, I've not.

Although as lovely as it would be. Sadly me knowing my mother she'd tell me its wonderful, use it once and go back to her old ways and keep telling me otherwise.

She has her system of plugging in her digital camera, scanner for her prints and then work for hours.

When windows 11 decided to update itself on her machine, it really threw her in to a spin. Luckily she was within the Ten Day "don't like" uninstall limit. That was my latest fiasco.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#119

Post by gremlinsinc » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #43

Let's go back to wax cylinders, horses & buggies, and the old crank phone while we're at it! Jokes aside: What kind of new features and tangible improvements are coming? I get that "owning" a piece of software can have tangible value; but it depends on the purpose of the software and how it's used. I don't see a sudden revolution where all companies decide they want to run their own email servers and and host their o…

the only good ones I can think of are ai related to own the data, and privacy, but the compute and tech needed, you'd be better to just have the whole system in a black box like old school cable tv receivers, with a rack of a100s, software that can receive firmware updates etc, but probably isn't that extendable.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#120

Post by znpy » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

core-utility wrote: post #111

Calavar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pricing sounds fair. Unfortunately, I feel that's the exception. Adobe Dreamweaver CS6 was $400 [1]. Now Dreamweawer Creative Cloud is $250 per year [2]. So after 1.75 years, you've already taken a loss. [1] https://prodesigntools.com/products/adobe-cs6-pricing-list.h... [2] https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

What would be more interesting is to compare over 10 years for someone who buys upgrades (CS2->CS3->CS4 etc.) as they come out. Additionally the individual Dreamweaver price is very high compared to "All Apps" plan at $660 per year.

> What would be more interesting is to compare over 10 years for someone who buys upgrades (CS2->CS3->CS4 etc.) as they come out.

but nobody does that, really.

most people i know skip entire versions of windows (eg: 7->10), let a lone individual software releases.