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90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

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Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#111

Post by tuhriel »

irrational wrote: post #55
bsuvc wrote: post #26

I'm sure someone probably feels strongly about this, but I will ask anyway: Do we as a society even need straws? I never use a straw at home. The only time I would consider wanting one would be for a milkshake maybe, due to its thickness making it hard to sip otherwise. I am not anti-straw, just think it is sort of a weird thing for our society to use when I stop to think about it.

The only time I find it useful is when I’m driving while drinking a side I got at the fast food place I stopped at. It’s pretty easy to drive while drinking out of a straw.

Those cups in themselves are a pain. Why cant they just hand out PET bottles like you get everywhere else? (at least in europe) hand out a reusable sport cap aswell and you have a perfect bottle without the need of a) a straw b) a cup c) a lid

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#112

Post by akira2501 »

timeon wrote: post #54
wahnfrieden wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers demand it, and we chose a society that mostly freely provides goods for consumer demands. So is your issue with the free market, or is it toothless consumer elitism (I don't mean this reply to be a defense of the market either. I'm asking you to evaluate what is core to your criticism)

> Consumers demand it, and we chose a society that mostly freely provides goods for consumer demands. Except for Ad industry and marketing.

The presumption that all advertising is merely crass mass manipulation in order to force consumers to do things they otherwise wouldn't want to do is, I fear, continued elitism.

And in the context of this discussion, you might be asked to prove that straws are used purely because of the manipulations of marketers.

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#113

Post by dddssddd »

kragen wrote: post #99
audunw wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it doesn’t seem that paper straws is about the resource consumption or oil used or anything like that. I think you have completely misunderstood the purpose. Even with the order of magnitude increase in resources used it’s still insignificant, as you touch on. What’s not insignificant is that in the contexts where straws are used.. fast food and coffee shops and such, they’re all too likely to be just thrown ou…

from my point of view, it depends on how much of it there is and what effect it has on the environment sand, glass, metal, and rust aren't biodegradable either, but i don't think we should ban mountains because they throw sand out into nature when they erode plastic straws are generally polypropylene, which is photodegradable to relatively nontoxic materials

Didn't realize Mountains were pollution until you pointed it out. Thanks for your meaningful and on discussion contribution!

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#114

Post by ben_w »

Closi wrote: post #102
ben_w wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may have misread something; €1131 per month, of which €468 is rent and utilities (in Berlin, so still a good rate). €7.6 euros per week for food is doable, I think, but last time I really tried to optimise that I was at university, in the UK, and it was 2003. (£0.50/day: Lidl instant noodles that they don't even sell any more, Quaker oats packs that aren't sold here, skimmed milk, dried fruit in the oats;…

Apologies I did misread - removed original comment.

It happens to all of us, no worries :)

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#116

Post by sixstringtheory »

irrational wrote: post #57
sixstringtheory wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I question if it actually does make a difference, and in any case, we should kill two birds with one stone and just not drink unhealthy drinks. “It’s so simple!” -Jim Gaffigan “Stop it!” -Bob Newhart

Let’s just outlaw everything but tap water.

You don’t have to outlaw anything. Disincentivize it.

“But then only the rich will get to rot their teeth out!” Good, I guess? So what?

“Poor people will still spend money on sugar water! You’ll drive them deeper into poverty!” Then the price isn’t high enough yet. It needs to exceed the cost of the dental and medical work it will precipitate. Which by definition will price many poor people out of sugar water. Which it should.

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#117

Post by bemusedthrow75 »

reaperducer wrote: post #108
moron4hire wrote: post #17

Why does every drink need a straw, anyway?

Why does every drink need a straw, anyway? For my wife, because it ruins her lipstick less than a lid with a hole in it. I've heard some people say they do it because they think it reduces the effect of the soda/coffee/whatever staining their teeth. I think it just increases consumption because you don't feel it filling your mouth as much as when you drink from the rim of a cup.

Drinking the kind of "coffee" that needs a straw already makes one a soulless monster, though ;-)

The ethics of straws just won't move the needle.

I mean this only mostly in jest. Iced coffee drinks really are to me a particular indicator of overconsumption.

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#118

Post by kragen »

ricardobeat wrote: post #110
kragen wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

probably it's good to have plastic everywhere if it decreases environmental damage the hsu analysis is wrong because it's omitting the energy consumed by growing the trees; it rates "craft paper" as 12.6 kJ/g, but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#In_chemical_rea... burning wood produces 18 MJ/kg = 18 kJ/g, which is to say, more energy than that is still available in the end product , without…

I’m not surprised you replied in less time than it takes to read the first paragraph. The study is about embedded energy, so yes one assumes it does account for energy used growing trees (remember the solar energy they use is free), unless you have evidence to the contrary? I can’t even start understanding that logic. The whole reason we’re having this discussion is that we know the environment, especially marine lif…

i have added my calculations to the contrary to the comment above, perhaps after you wrote your comment, so you can see that i had somehow come to the correct conclusions before reading the first paragraph

consider the possibility that this is because i have previous knowledge of the area instead of just pasting the first link google throws at me, so my opinions are based on domain knowledge instead of the kind of common sense that tells you the world is flat

if solar energy is free then why do we care about embodied energy

we do not know that the environment, especially marine life, is being 'ravaged' by plastic waste. it is being ravaged by clear-cutting (including for papermaking), by industrial waste effluents (including from papermaking), by agricultural waste effluents, by global warming, by ocean acidification, by habitat destruction from farming (including tree farming), by overfishing, by desertification, and by dumping of toxic waste

there is clearly a problem with plastic waste due to poor waste disposal practices in a few countries (mostly indonesia and the philippines) but in the overall scheme of environmental devastation, it is comparatively small, and plastic straws are an utterly insignificant part of that comparatively small problem

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#119

Post by pierat »

jayd16 wrote: post #65

Why are aluminum cans cheap and disposable but we can't have cheap aluminum straws?

Whats worse is those arent just aluminum cans....

Soda cans are aluminum cans with a LAYER OF PLASTIC inside. We literally can't get far enough away from plastic. That shit's everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIVONw9Pr4w

Solution: We used to have bottling plants everywhere, and the loop was "local city glass bottling-> sold drinks-> return bottle -> sanitize bottle -> repeat". Low waste, no plastic crap, and REUSE (of the 4 R's). But nope, it's cheaper to consume new material and throw it "away" AKA: our children or their children to deal with. Its not like they can vote to stop us.

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