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HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

hellosystem.github.io

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Re: HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

#111

Post by hedora »

jwells89 wrote: post #71
jeroen79 wrote: post #34

i don't know why people wan't to keep cloning osx, it might looks nice, but time has proven its a quite unproductive gui

The problem is that very few macOS clone projects reach anything close to maturity, which means that paradigm is barely represented in FOSS desktops. Aside from GNOME (which is iPadOS, not macOS) and its prettier cousin Pantheon, It's just Win9X clones and tiling WMs as far as the eye can see. That might not seem like a big deal, but if the goal is to get as many people switched away from commercial operating systems…

Gnome 2 did a good job of taking all the best ideas from Windows and MacOS, then innovating on top. Sun even ran user studies to validate the UI as it was being built.

Then the gnome 3 team intentionally sabotaged it all by intentionally arranging for gnome 3 apps to refuse to coexist with a gnome 2 install.

Sigh.

Re: HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

#113

Post by PrimeMcFly »

hedora wrote: post #109
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's any more stable, dependable or predictable than any similarly mature Linux distro. It's just a preference, perhaps with a sliver of contrarianism.

Can you name any production-quality / daily-driver linux distros that have used the same network config, init, logging, etc for the last 5 years, let alone the last 3 decades (like the BSDs have)? I never felt comfortable managing openbsd, but linux has repeatedly and gratuitously changed all the management tools, so now it’s easier for me to get around an openbsd box, despite using Linux daily, and openbsd maybe twi…

> Can you name any production-quality / daily-driver linux distros that have used the same network config, init, logging, etc for the last 5 years, let alone the last 3 decades (like the BSDs have)?

Are you not so subtly referring to the systemd fiasco? That was about, if not over 10 years ago. I also don't think it matters. Change is not a bad thing, and that change is not as hectic or constant as you seem to imply.

If you really want a Linux distro that hasn't changed at all in the past 30 years, Slackware might be your bets bet, but I don't think that 'having not changed in the past 30 years' really makes sense as a metric.

Personally, I'm a fan of Alpine and Void Linux, and I also run NetBSD. FreeBSD seems too 'messy' as someone that likes minimalism, and OpenBSD's security focus is misplaced IMO.

Re: HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

#114

Post by jwells89 »

hedora wrote: post #111
jwells89 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that very few macOS clone projects reach anything close to maturity, which means that paradigm is barely represented in FOSS desktops. Aside from GNOME (which is iPadOS, not macOS) and its prettier cousin Pantheon, It's just Win9X clones and tiling WMs as far as the eye can see. That might not seem like a big deal, but if the goal is to get as many people switched away from commercial operating systems…

Gnome 2 did a good job of taking all the best ideas from Windows and MacOS, then innovating on top. Sun even ran user studies to validate the UI as it was being built. Then the gnome 3 team intentionally sabotaged it all by intentionally arranging for gnome 3 apps to refuse to coexist with a gnome 2 install. Sigh.

Yeah, I thought GNOME 2 was pretty usable. MATE is around now but aging and probably forever X11-only. Rebuilding GNOME 2 on Wayland and with modern necessities like fractional scaling would be a worthy project.

Re: HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

#115

Post by somat »

swozey wrote: post #47

About 20 years ago I was an openbsd and freebsd admin, webhosting mostly. Then the rest of my maybe 16 year career was debian with some sprinkles of centos/rhel What would bring me to bsd today? Not in a negative way at all, I'm curious what people love about it. I barely remember much about it. I loved pf over iptables but I don't remember why. It has jailed containers which.. I think people still love? I'm not sure…

I use openbsd in a desktop role, which is a but unusual. I like it because it is comfortable in a way I don't find in linux or windows. I think this is because I understand it. A situation I never feel on windows. you are sitting on so much complexity, it is fine when you are in the happy path where things are working, But I start to get nervous when pondering not only how much I don't know about windows but on how much I can not know. Linux is much better, but still has too many moving parts.

I don't think of openbsd as a minimal system, in fact it is almost the opposite openbsd crams more into it's base distribution than most linux distos. But the openbsd services tend to be small and well behaved and well documented., I am a bit biased but I tend to think of openbsd as the best bsd for desktop use. It is not the fastest, it does not have the best filesystems, but damn if everything does not come together in a really comfortable package.

Re: HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

#116

Post by mekster »

swozey wrote: post #47

About 20 years ago I was an openbsd and freebsd admin, webhosting mostly. Then the rest of my maybe 16 year career was debian with some sprinkles of centos/rhel What would bring me to bsd today? Not in a negative way at all, I'm curious what people love about it. I barely remember much about it. I loved pf over iptables but I don't remember why. It has jailed containers which.. I think people still love? I'm not sure…

The fact BSD can't run Docker with its vast ecosystem is already a show stopper.

Also having little glitches by tiny differences in shell handling make your already tuned Linux dotfiles incompatible that adds to the annoyances.

And then I don't really get anything over Linux. pf is good but I'm just mostly using ufw and not running a router in the cloud that requires more than port handling.

Ubuntu supports zfs in a very seamless way that I just don't find a reason to use BSD anymore unfortunately. It's probably only driven by companies that don't want to expose their code via GPL.

Re: HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

#117

Post by pjerem »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #105
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get why it's mostly artists who always buy Apple's marketing hook line and sinker.

IDK about artists (always did my art on DOS and Windows) yet Mac is slowly conquering business with consistency and fewer ads. Windows used to be the business OS, it was customizable, corp controlled where need be, and backward compatible. It was one platform to dev for and manage to reach a huge audience. Now Windows reputation has suffered mightily with bundled ads, version churn (also impacts Mac yet with limited…

Yeah my company is currently switching to macOS.

We write software in C#, most employees still use VisualStudio, we still have some legacy code in .NET Framework (everything else is netcore). It’s a 20 years old company.

So that’s the typical windows shop but still we are migrating to macOS. That’s how much Windows have become a shit show.

Re: HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

#118

Post by suprjami »

jwells89 wrote: post #114
hedora wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gnome 2 did a good job of taking all the best ideas from Windows and MacOS, then innovating on top. Sun even ran user studies to validate the UI as it was being built. Then the gnome 3 team intentionally sabotaged it all by intentionally arranging for gnome 3 apps to refuse to coexist with a gnome 2 install. Sigh.

Yeah, I thought GNOME 2 was pretty usable. MATE is around now but aging and probably forever X11-only. Rebuilding GNOME 2 on Wayland and with modern necessities like fractional scaling would be a worthy project.

Everything except the Control Centre has been started porting to Wayland, and a few things are even finished: https://wiki.mate-desktop.org/developers-corner/wayland-meso...

XFCE are not that far along, but the developers are tinkering: https://www.phoronix.com/news/xfwm4-wayland-May-2023

Re: HelloSystem: A graphical OS built on FreeBSD

#120

Post by pacifika »

pipeline_peak wrote: post #15

Contribute to GNUStep if you want to support a legitimate transition for Mac users. Not yet another aqua rip off distro running reskinned Mate. Just get FreeBSD with gnome or mate if you’re so inclined. If you’re using Hello as your daily driver, you’re gonna get your hands dirty getting things to work anyway. Might as well start from core. GhostBSD, MidnightBSD, TrueOS, haven’t people realized FreeBSD is too obscure…

Your points are addressed here https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/31/hellosystem_08/
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