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Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
111–120 of 175 posts
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#112This is good, this is how the AI learns and gets better. Just like a learner driver who stalls the engine, forgets to put on a turn signal and can't keep up with traffic. We've all got to learn sometime.
> We've all got to learn sometime.
The lesson should be that San Francisco isn't the right place to run a highly disruptive experiment.
Do these experiments where the potential for disruption is a lot lower, like a smaller city with less congestion.
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#113> On Friday night, as many as 10 Cruise driverless cars stopped working near a music festival in San Francisco’s North Beach, causing traffic to back up, according to The San Francisco Chronicle, which reported that the company had blamed “wireless connectivity issues.” They just stop if they lose service?
I mean, that's a good failsafe.
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It’s not hard to imagine a new type of safety cone that has an explicit sign for autonomous vehicles to stop far far away. Isn't that kind of defeating the point of autonomous vehicles if we need to build a world that will accommodate them?
The point of autonomous vehicles is to not have to totally reshape the world before being able to accommodate them. But small shifts like adjusting signs to also be easily read by autonomous vehicles aren't that crazy. It'd just be done such that new signage is made to be easily readable, so that over time, as old stuff is replaced, the signage becomes more readable for machines. This sort of thing can also benefit r…
It's corralling in the possible range of the vehicles - anywhere without the enhanced signage will have to be no man's land. If an autonomous car drives to a small town that doesn't have the enhanced cones and gets into an accident at a construction zone whose fault is it?
I'm not sure what "This sort of thing can also benefit regular vehicles." means in this instance. If the cone is machine readable how does that help me?
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#115This might be a naive question, but are driverless lanes being considered? For instance we have bike lanes all over the US. It might make sense to make a similar investment for AI-friendly lanes to help transition to driverless transportation.
It'll be a dark, sick twist that driverless cars will get their own protected lanes in many American cities before bikes do.
Counterpoint: traffic congestion is almost entirely due to individual driver differences. An automated lane would be vastly more efficient and could potentially lead to fewer lanes being needed for vehicles altogether. This is assuming that most cars would be automated so I'm talking about a more distant future, but I see that as more realistic than convincing America to abandon it's car addiction.
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would we want to spend so much money to transition to driverless transportation? Just take PT if you don't want to drive.
I'm all for public transport, and I don't think this will happen but... Because driverless cars are safer, faster and more efficient.
> more efficient.
Beg your pardon? How is 2.5 tons of steel to carry a handful of people more efficient than a tram?
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#117This is good, this is how the AI learns and gets better. Just like a learner driver who stalls the engine, forgets to put on a turn signal and can't keep up with traffic. We've all got to learn sometime.
Plus there is an opportunity for all the cars to learn the same lesson at once and forever. Also humans can learn from this too. It’s not hard to imagine a new type of safety cone that has an explicit sign for autonomous vehicles to stop far far away.
>It’s not hard to imagine a new type of safety cone that has an explicit sign for autonomous vehicles to stop far far away.
Two things:
The promise of self-driving cars is that they can operate themselves in an environment not specifically designed for them. If that promise is broken, and it's the position of the industry that things like traffic signals, construction, emergency services, road markings etc need to be modified for functionality with self-driving cars then I think public will to accommodate them dries up quickly.
That being said, I can imagine having a lot of fun with a physical token that can remotely stop an autonomous car.
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#118> On Friday night, as many as 10 Cruise driverless cars stopped working near a music festival in San Francisco’s North Beach, causing traffic to back up, according to The San Francisco Chronicle, which reported that the company had blamed “wireless connectivity issues.” They just stop if they lose service?
I mean, that's a good failsafe.
And if they lose connection on a foggy morning on a busy street and cause a pile up?
I agree that "stopping" should happen. But, they need to stop safely (pulled onto the shoulder/parking lane/low volume side road), not just abruptly stop in the middle of the street, blocking the rest of the traffic.[1]
1 - https://www.wsmv.com/2023/08/15/driverless-cars-stall-causin...
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#119The scary part of this is it went through construction cones and flaggers with stop signs to end up in the concrete. Basically, this thing went right through a construction zone without stopping. Granted, people are this dumb every single day. But who is liable for the fines here?
YES
The problem here is dispersed responsibility so no one is responsible
The result is that no one takes responsibility for not actually creating blatantly dangerous events, such as blowing through cones, signs and other obvious indicators of a construction / no-driving zone and endangering construction workers & passengers (cones also initially mark a washout/bridge-out problem). To the software developers and managers, it is just some lower-priority edge case they'll handle later. To the corporate promoters, it's just a cost to be externalized on the public. To the regulators, obviously, they don't want to be seen as "Luddites", so they just approved MORE, not less, of these obviously-not-self-driving cars.
If a person actually had both personal responsibility (e.g., they will get fined or potentially imprisoned for approx. negligent homicide if death results) and authority (e.g., they can stop deployment until it is truly fixed after a car mistakes a truck for the sky and decapitaties the driver or blows through a construction zone) to prevent these situations, they would not happen as much. Who should have such responsibility and authority? Start with the CEO and board.
EDIT: stray words, tenses, added examples
Re: Cruise vehicle gets stuck in wet concrete while driving in San Francisco
#120This might be a naive question, but are driverless lanes being considered? For instance we have bike lanes all over the US. It might make sense to make a similar investment for AI-friendly lanes to help transition to driverless transportation.
Why would we want to spend so much money to transition to driverless transportation? Just take PT if you don't want to drive.
Not OP, my issue with public transport is mostly the "public" part. At least on the DC metro, its not uncommon to see people getting harassed and MPD doing nothing about it. I've personally seen a drunk man pissing in the corner and watching it get carried by momentum through half the car. Sure, it's probably like a 1/50 trips you see something bad happening... but its still enough for me to prefer personal transportation.
The other half is the stuff you can't do, like carry large items or eat on the train. Just got some large boards for a DIY project and stopped by in-N-out. ~10 minutes there and back. Would have taken an hour w/PT, couldn't carry materials and couldn't stop for food. With a driver-less car, I could still do that.
I'm not suggesting any money go towards paying for driver-less lanes atm though. Still feels way too early for that.