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Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

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Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#111

Post by dffdsa432 »

x86x87 wrote: post #25

Coulda woulda shoulda They fucked around and now they are in the finding out phase. There is no way the EU will allow them to continue with their jackasseries. If you want back in apply like a new state and accept the shit conditions new members have to accept. You're not special. You're a shadow of a former great empire and your economy is collapsing. Immigrants? Those fools are actually keeping you afloat while you…

It's quite naive that you don't think the EU is harmed significantly by Britain leaving. The EU would take Britain back in a heartbeat.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#112

Post by flir »

deepthunder wrote: post #88
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #43

I was a remainer (ie anti-Brexit). This article shows what seems to be becoming a general growing consensus that "some people (prominent campaigners and politicians) lied to us for their own benefit" - and there is a more subtle second consensus of "and then forced a hard brexit for their own career gains". This is a nice consensus because it has evil people to blame, and removes the blame from 50% of the voting publ…

A start would be ditching FPTP elections. People vote with their emotions, regardless of education. But I will concede education helps. However, look at all the educated but gullible fools who still think the Democrat Party is "for the people" compared to the Republican Party. Both parties are for the Ruling Elite. Its just different Rhetoric but same actions and outcomes.

IMO you do root cause analysis on pretty much any major problem the UK is facing and there, right at the bottom, is FPTP.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#113

Post by tim333 »

x86x87 wrote: post #25

Coulda woulda shoulda They fucked around and now they are in the finding out phase. There is no way the EU will allow them to continue with their jackasseries. If you want back in apply like a new state and accept the shit conditions new members have to accept. You're not special. You're a shadow of a former great empire and your economy is collapsing. Immigrants? Those fools are actually keeping you afloat while you…

The UK chipped in a big chunk of their budget, second to Germany. They'd probably like the money even if we are annoying.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#114

Post by flir »

deepthunder wrote: post #93
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we get sensible disagreement on the viable ones and laugh the crayon drawings out? This is the biggest problem. It's an even bigger problem in the US. The issue is lack of education. There's a reason repub voters are generally not college educated. The answer is also education, with the caveat you can't educate people who don't want to be educated because they are already too far down a rabbit hole.

Lets not forget what swayed the working class (former Labour stronholds) to vote Brexit in the first place: IMMIGRATION! [aka "free-movement"] Tony Blair was the only leader to allow Immigration ["free-movement"] from Eastern Europe the from moment they joined the EU. Coupled with English being most peoples second language the UK was flooded with people that helped to keep the wages down (by design of course). And wh…

> Tony Blair was the only leader to allow Immigration ["free-movement"] from Eastern Europe the from moment they joined the EU.

That's not true. Bulgaria and Romania were limited for the full seven year period.

> Next election, no-one will be voting FOR Labour, they will be voting AGAINST the Tories.

That's true of most elections where power changes hands. If the party in power is doing an average job, the electorate tends not to replace them with an unknown. They have to be doing badly to get kicked out.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#116

Post by xk_id »

dffdsa432 wrote: post #111
x86x87 wrote: post #25

Coulda woulda shoulda They fucked around and now they are in the finding out phase. There is no way the EU will allow them to continue with their jackasseries. If you want back in apply like a new state and accept the shit conditions new members have to accept. You're not special. You're a shadow of a former great empire and your economy is collapsing. Immigrants? Those fools are actually keeping you afloat while you…

It's quite naive that you don't think the EU is harmed significantly by Britain leaving. The EU would take Britain back in a heartbeat.

You seem to be making the same flawed assumption that the vast majority of british population does. The EU is not, and has never been, a project primarily driven by economic interests. It is a socio-political union, predicated on the fundamental principle of co-operation between different cultures, who regard each other as equals. But this will always be at odds with the unique superiority complex inherent in the culture of (mainly) white english people. This why UK never actually belonged in the EU and ended up causing endless friction; De Gaulle anticipated this and even blocked UK's membership several times. The reality is the EU was more relieved, than harmed by brexit.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#117

Post by purple_elephant »

nvm0n1 wrote: post #105
purple_elephant wrote: post #42

There are many uninformed comments in this thread saying that the UK would have to join the Eurozone if it returned to the EU. No. You only have to adopt the euro if you meet the convergence criteria. One of the criteria is joining ERM II. There's no mechanism that can force a country to join ERM II. This is why Sweden, although theoretically obliged to join the eurozone, still has its own currency.

No, why do pro-EU people lie about this so frequently? The rules say that to join you must adopt the euro. The EU has chosen not to enforce this rule on legacy members for now, but certainly would enforce it on Britain and anyway good luck selling "we want to join but we plan to illegally ignore the rules" to either the EU or the British electorate. Reality is the EU wasn't every opportunity in the UK and it's blue g…

The rules aren't "unenforced". Sweden, and the other non-eurozone countries without an opt-out, are complying with the rules. There's no rule requiring the EU members to meet the convergence criteria.

Instead of accussing me of lying, you could've just looked up the relevant treaties.

Here's an abridged summary: https://economy-finance.ec.europa.eu/euro/enlargement-euro-a...

And this is about ERM II, it explicitly says that it's voluntary: https://economy-finance.ec.europa.eu/euro/enlargement-euro-a...

The full treaty on European Union is here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#118

Post by mutatio »

mlyle wrote: post #99
mutatio wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because domestic UK politics wouldn't allow this to pass on technicalities, I mean haven't you learned anything from the build up to Brexit? It would have to be explicit to be palatable, not some technicality that we effectively want to play ball on the Euro, but never really do... Hell, even from the EU side I'd want a honest decision, not political illusion.

I'm not sure what you're even saying. 5/27 states sit outside of ERM2 and are allowed to not progress towards adopting the Euro.

I'm saying a pinky promise (to join the Euro, never to do so) would not be sufficient to reassure the British establishment or electorate of losing fiscal sovereignty. I don't understand why the EU would want this either. It would have to be an explicit "The UK has full fiscal sovereignty".

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#119

Post by scott_w »

mpweiher wrote: post #108
scott_w wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “source” is the fact Labour are not talking about rejoining. We don’t have access to their internal polling, for obvious reasons, but they clearly believe in this strategy and the 20pt lead in the polls suggests they’re right to. EDIT: I missed the source for the polls. This YouGov poll shows a big “Don’t know” block which is completely missing from the news reports. Poll: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/art…

According to those numbers, rejoin is 55% and Leave + Don't Know is 44%. It always helps to read the sources you cite...

I did and that’s not how polls work.

- Those numbers are much closer than 60/40, for a start

- People change their mind because of a campaign

- The poll doesn’t show how different constituencies will vote

- To get elected, you win constituencies, not the popular vote

- YouGov polling puts “leaving the EU” down at 17% in importance https://yougov.co.uk/topics/education/trackers/the-most-impo...

- Meaning the public don’t want to talk about it

- Labour are focus-grouping EVERY MESSAGE; if they decided rejoin is bad for them, it’s because it’s not what key voters want

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#120

Post by Ekaros »

messe wrote: post #14
blcknight wrote: post #5

Hard to imagine Britain joining both the Euro and the Schengen zones. I just don’t see the British public not thinking they’re special and demanding exceptions and carve outs just for them.

I suspect they could maintain an opt out for the Schengen, purely because a land border exists with Ireland, which isn’t part of the Schengen area either. (That being said I’d like it if Ireland joined Schengen, as it makes it just a tad more convenient when flying to the rest of the EU) Doubtful that they could avoid a commitment to joining the eurozone though.

Ireland is not against Schengen. They are out because of UK and previous agreement. I think they would be extremely glad to join Schengen if UK was forced at exact same time.
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