Live data from Hacker News

Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

111–120 of 769 posts

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#111
post #65
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article (or another poster) points out, you get a different algorithm when you look at the dash on a random day vs. when the Tesla knows you are going on a trip. That's even more damning to me. Edit: Also a different algorithm when below 50% charged. As some of the replies point out, a destination does supply more information. The current charge level does not.

When going on a road trip Tesla calculates the time based on the route you put into navigation. Obviously it will give a different estimate than stop and go traffic and starting the vehicle without pre-conditioning the battery. Tesla does a great job with their scheduling functionality that lets you pre-condition battery before you leave and even when you near a supercharger to maximize charging efficiency of the bat…

That makes sense. But if Tesla is going to do that, surely their less informed estimation shouldn't be so naive and use historic data. Why would Tesla guess I'm in stop and go traffic when it knows I spend 80% of my time on a highway. Shouldn't it aim for either the most accurate or most conservative naive number?

As the article points out, it also switches to a significantly more accurate estimation once the battery is half discharged.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#112
This really shouldn’t be read as a defense of EV companies, but I think there is just a learning curve for EVs which people really haven’t grappled with yet.

Here is a minor list of things which will reduce range pretty significantly:

- Driving over 50 MPH

- Using the AC

- Using the heat

- Driving in extreme cold or extreme heat

- Driving in an area with a lot of hills. (From what I can tell regenerative braking makes up less than it loses for a given hill. If anyone can correct me here, let me know)

- Accelerating more than necessary

- Not making full use of regenerative braking

- Driving on the highway rather than around town (see the 50 MPH comment)

Are these concessions OK? Is it just a matter of better education and more honest marketing? That’s sort of for everyone to decide collectively. One thing that is for sure is that EVs have a totally different set of quirks and limitations than ICE vehicles, and that will have to be adjusted for one way or another. It’s also worth noting that most of the things listed above _also_ adversely affect ICE vehicles, however not necessarily as much, or it’s not felt directly because getting gas is very convenient.

It also strikes me that anything which adversely affects MPG in an ICE vehicle can also be said to “reduce range.” You’re losing miles off your current tank of gas. Presumably because the range is so small, and recharge opportunities are so limited, this affects people in EVs more strongly than in ICE vehicles. Perhaps if both were improved (battery capacity and charging infrastructure) then these concerns would evaporate.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#113
Why do they call it a 'secret team'? Why do they call it 'complaints'?

As said in the article, these are not complaints, but service appointments. Creating a team to handle these unnecessary appointments is completely normal. There's nothing secret about this team.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#114

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

Not defending Tesla but battery range is really hard without context. Kinetic energy is velocity^2, which means moving twice the speed takes 4X the energy. They probably can get the right estimate for a destination because it knows the speed limit for the route and using that as your velocity can give you a better answer.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#115
post #24

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

[flagged]

We have a decade old Mazda 2 that gives you an estimated range for your tank based on the average of the last several miles you drove. With all the data Tesla has available, it not being able to give anything other than EPA range is pathetic. A simple calculation based on your last trip range and your current trip range would get you way closer that 20-25% off and Tesla can’t be bothered, or intentionally doesn’t use, something so basic. Not to mention that Tesla should be able to learn that you commute Monday through Friday in stop and go, and take a couple highway trips on most weekends, and calculate a close to dead accurate range, but decided it looks better to give a range estimate that is basically a lie.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#116
post #77

It’s a controversial opinion but I really believe EV’s need 500 miles of range to truly compete with ICE vehicles. Think: batteries not fully charging or depleting for longevity concerns. Having to stop at chargers before range is out due to there not being another one coming up, extra headwinds, extra heat or AC, simply ending up at a broken or crowded charger and needing it to a different one, pulling a load, etc,…

How many miles do you think the average person drives per day?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#117
> Neither Tesla nor Chief Executive Elon Musk responded to detailed questions from Reuters for this story.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The reporters are really missing a zinger on this one.

Instead it should read, "When contacted about the range of Tesla's cars, Elon described it as the [poop emoji].".

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#118

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions. The routefinder 'learns' from your previous driving habits. Driving style easily has a 50% impact on range between "drives 50 mph slipstreaming behind a truck" and "drives 90 mph and brakes aggressively at every corner".

"Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions."

I guess I'm flabbergasted by this, as that's not how my Chevy Volt (and I presume many other BEVs) work. The range value ('guessimeter' people call it) on my Volt takes something like a rolling average of your last few drives and that's what it shows you. So if it's winter, it shows you less range because your last few drives had less efficiency. It's not always accurate (if there's, say, major temp fluctuations), but it's way more useful than what you're describing.

To me, what you're describing is borderline dishonest marketing, and technically unnecessary.

What I'd like to see is two numbers: estimated range as I've described, and beside it a kWh # (which I can guesstimate from the battery % gauge visual, but not precise).

EDIT: Not sure why car manufacturers in general hide the kWh remaining-capacity of the battery so much. They seem to think consumers are too stupid to understand such technical terms? But they're clearly aware of it every time they use a public charger, and it's the closest equivalent to litres/gallons in an ICE.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#119
post #32

That's a pretty damning article and it looks like there are more and more of those coming. Tesla still somehow benefits from its innovators / clean company reputation, but at this pace it won't be long before agencies start to act on what's become much more than just 'optimistic marketing'.

I think that reputation already died in the last 2-3 years. It's now pretty common in my circle to hear people say they'll pay a premium to not own a Tesla. Primarily because of lots of bad experiences with build quality/repairs, but also because there are now lots of high quality alternatives. Namely Rivian and Lucid, but also the legacy automakers (two friends bought mach-es recently and there's a smattering of F-1…

If their stock price is anything to go on, they channel perfect futuristic cars out of a time void and will bring about a utopian post-scarcity society.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#120

This really shouldn’t be read as a defense of EV companies, but I think there is just a learning curve for EVs which people really haven’t grappled with yet. Here is a minor list of things which will reduce range pretty significantly: - Driving over 50 MPH - Using the AC - Using the heat - Driving in extreme cold or extreme heat - Driving in an area with a lot of hills. (From what I can tell regenerative braking make…

What does any of this have to do with the fact that Tesla is lying to its customers and the other EV manufacturers are not.
Post reply on HN