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Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

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Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#111

Post by johnwalkr »

QuiEgo wrote: post #94

For the curious, there's a hierarchy defined by the USB-C cable spec. Table 4-17 Precedence of power source usage https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/USB%20Type-C%20Spec%... - Baseline: it behaves like a USB cable from 1996. Sync gets 100mA@5V (USB2) or 150mA@5V (USB3), and then as part of USB enumeration you can get up to 500mA@5V (USB2) or 900/1500mA@5V (USB3 single/dual lane) depending on what happens during U…

In my experience and understanding, those are voltages usb-c must support. Section 4.5 explains how the voltage is zero until a correct resistance is detected, then it can be negotiated up from there. Usb-c to usb-a cables always contain the right resistors to work at up to 5V, 3A. In fact if you go on aliexpress and buy male connectors to make a usb-c cable they will almost always have the resistors needed to make a usb a-c cable.

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#112

Post by johnwalkr »

ylyn wrote: post #12

Meh, this problem is super, super common. I have many random electric devices that charge using USB-C that don't have the pulldown on CC. Maybe I should get/make a shim for this.. a USB-C female-to-male thing that just passes through everything but has a pulldown on CC.

I have a small kit I use when traveling. It includes a short c-c cable, an anker 45W charger (which is good enough for an m1 MacBook), a c-lightning adapter, a c-a adapter and an a-c adapter. Using both the c-a and a-c adapters in series works.

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#113

Post by MBCook »

johnwalkr wrote: post #109
MBCook wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s so weird. I have what I would categorize as “cheap crap” that works great. Like an IR thermometer for surfaces or an electric ‘compressed air’ duster (powerful fan with a small nozzle and a battery). Both work perfectly on proper USB-C and charge. They were both $15 or less. The kind of device where every cent on the BoM may matter. The devices in my original comment? Hundreds of dollars each. They have to go th…

It’s not about the price of two resistors, it’s just incompetence when updating the design from micro-usb to usb-c.

I agree. I think they took an old design for the USB part of things and just swapped the connector too.

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#114

Post by johnwalkr »

I upgraded all my old microusb and non-conforming usb-c devices to working usb-c. I think in every case of a non-conforming usb-c device, the connector itself only had V, ground, d+ and d- (and sometimes not even the last two). So it's kind of understandable how a junior engineer, when asked to update a design from microusb to usb-c finds a connector without CC pins and puts it in the design without thinking twice.

This also means the easiest DIY fix is the same as upgrading a device from microusb. Buy a connector with a small breakout board that has the correct resistors like this one[1]. Desolder the old connector, and solder the new one onto any convenient ground pads. Using the linked connector, it needs to be soldered upside-down but you can find a few different styles on aliexpress depending on what will fit in your device. You may need to insulate or scrape away some traces to avoid short circuits. Then solder small wires in place for V, ground, d+ and d-. There's always a nearby capacitor to solder to V, and nearby resistors to solder to d+ and d-.

[1]https://www.tindie.com/products/casualcoders/c-usb-type-c-br...

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#115

Post by johnwalkr »

MBCook wrote: post #113
johnwalkr wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about the price of two resistors, it’s just incompetence when updating the design from micro-usb to usb-c.

I agree. I think they took an old design for the USB part of things and just swapped the connector too.

Yes, I think it's a case of the engineer finding a connector that doesn't expose the CC pins (where the resistors go), and not even realizing that something is missing when they update a design from microusb to usb-c.

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#116

Post by chaostheory »

Kirby64 wrote: post #28
chaostheory wrote: post #4

Given how complicated and inconsistent the USB-C spec is, I’m still surprised that Apple chose it even though it’s so terrible.

Apple is one of the key companies involved in the spec and guided it heavily. Why wouldn't they use?

Because it’s terrible.

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#117

Post by throwawaymobule »

anymouse123456 wrote: post #60
m463 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

come on, we just got rid of crossover cables for ethernet, do you really want rs-232 again? :)

Yah, there are lots of good reasons to be grateful for USB (especially before the fiasco that is type C). I'm just bitter and resentful about being forced to pay thousands of dollars for an artificially scarce number.

do you really need to get a vendor number? I've assumed there's an unregulated section somewhere.

I think most cheap devices I've tangled with use the vendor number of whoever made the chipset. (or a random one, because chineseium)

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#118

Post by JohnFen »

jtriangle wrote: post #3

While I'm glad that they took the time to hold support's feet to the fire over this, doing that sort of thing is almost certainly a waste of time. Seldom will you find a support team who can understand a technical hardware problem like this, and even more seldom will you find a company that responds to this with anything other than "nothing we can do, sorry". You're not going to get the "Wow, that is our bad, we'll r…

> Seldom will you find a support team who can understand a technical hardware problem like this, and even more seldom will you find a company that responds to this with anything other than "nothing we can do, sorry".

I've had reasonable luck, honestly. Certainly not the majority of the time, but often enough to have some hope.

I've found that if I treat the support person decently -- as in, don't show my irritation and treat them as I'd prefer to be treated if I had their job -- and I demonstrate (not assert) that I've done my homework, know what I'm talking about, and am reasonable, I can get things escalated to someone who has the knowledge and power to address my concern.

I've even been put directly in touch with devs this way on occasion.

What I've learned is that most support people actually do want to get your issue resolved and don't want to spend all day with you. What you need to do is give them an acceptable (to their supervisors) reason to kick your issue to someone who can be more helpful. And don't be a dick. Nobody's going to go out of their way to help a dick.

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#119

Post by overnight5349 »

jasonjayr wrote: post #41
mtlynch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've sometimes been able to escalate to the right people and effect change, even when I have to go through a seemingly uncaring customer support team. I was inspired by patio11's "Identity Theft, Credit Reports, and You."[0] It changed the way I raise disputes with companies as a consumer, and it's gotten me good results. The tl; dr is that large organizations have things they're afraid of, and they typically have pr…

So; in this specific case, if they have a USB-IF trademarked logo or icon on their device or packaging, then maybe the USB-IF could come along to put some pressure to get a better outcome? I've seen cheap devices with USB ports --- but no logo. Probably for this very reason.

The USB logo is pretty well pointless. All you're paying for is a license for the logo.

Despite USB-IF's efforts to associate that logo with "good" or "safe" or even "compliant" USB devices, I doubt that many consumers know or care.

Part of the reason is that their licensing is pretty pricey unless you're already at the mass manufacturing stage. You have to pay an annual fee for the logo, an annual fee for the VID, and you have to pay to get your widget certified. All so you can use a logo that consumers don't know or care about.

On the other hand, you can implement a USB device without paying a dime to USB-IF. It's super annoying without your own VID, but that's often not even necessary.

So we get cheap Chinese devices with no certification because why would they even bother?

Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity

#120

Post by wahnfrieden »

duxup wrote: post #78
wahnfrieden wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon deeply hides the human chat features. They’re also placed differently in diff countries. Go look for it under the general support page, not starting from the product order status page which rarely exposes helpful support functions

TY, I will try that.

even when amazon tells you on the product page that something cannot be returned, if you can find the chat link elsewhere and ask about the product there, you will find that not only can it be returned, you can also get the option to be refunded without having to return the item (at least mostly the case with food items in my experience)
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