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Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#111

Post by _Algernon_ »

psychphysic wrote: post #75
defrost wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear why you would post that but it's certainly worth pointing out that climate change denialism has been funded since the mid 1970s and that the author of that opinion piece is Art Robinson, a recent Oregon State Senator and long time denier via his "Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine". While it adds nothing to the history of actual earth based science it is certainly an insight into the history clim…

Thanks for posting the link so I could see the article. I did only skim it, and I'm surprised. I don't think it's an unreasonable criticism for 1997. But that's over a quarter of a century ago. He accepts CO2 is probably released by humans and apparently at a rate the sinks can't cope. He accepts that CO2 and other greenhouse gasses can lead to warming. But says that the data thus far had not borne out global warming…

1997 had a temperature anomaly of 0.42 C above average temperature relative to 1961-1990 avg. temperature (which is already above pre-industrial levels.

>But says that the data thus far had not borne out global warming was happening.

This claim is evidently horseshit.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/temperature-anomaly

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#112

Post by myshpa »

klipt wrote: post #53
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems disingenuous when the climate catastrophe is going to have far greater effects on modern life. Too many people are clinging to the dream of continuing to dig out and burn as much oil as possible when it's clear that that behaviour is not sustainable. Although personal responsibility is never a bad thing, we need to focus on the big companies that have been deliberately hiding climate science for decades -…

The solution is a carbon tax, which is unpopular with big oil companies but probably also unpopular with many citizens who vote based on gas prices. We may just have to use solar radiation management instead.

That's not a solution.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#113

Post by notahacker »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #82
Lorkki wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expert opinions that I've seen so far have indicated that geoengineering at any scale that we're realistically able to produce on a short notice is unlikely to have a sufficient effect on climate change. Essentially it's a pipe dream at best, and a way to create additional (localised) disasters at worst. If the only proper argument for doing it is that "the left" is against it and "the right" is for it, that seem…

The expert opinions that come from the same people who don't want it to happen? How much are those worth?

That sounds like a critique far more applicable to non-experts arguing that there's no need for any kind of modification to our consumption patterns or energy use, because if "the left" really cared about the environment they'd just set off our nukes or radically change the composition of our oceans instead

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#114

Post by geraneum »

Aerroon wrote: post #38
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should take note that even now we have companies pushing back against any changes to our oil consumption. They're literally intent on destroying our way of life to get a bit more profit.

But our oil consumption essentially is our way of life. Changing it will have enormous effects on modern life. A lot of people are going to see a significant drop in their quality of life as a result. This is why it's so hard to change things in the first place, it's not about the companies, but about average people.

I doubt the same people who won’t accept a decline in quality of life by reduced oil consumption will be thrilled with the consequences of the alternative.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#115

Post by psychphysic »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #111
psychphysic wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting the link so I could see the article. I did only skim it, and I'm surprised. I don't think it's an unreasonable criticism for 1997. But that's over a quarter of a century ago. He accepts CO2 is probably released by humans and apparently at a rate the sinks can't cope. He accepts that CO2 and other greenhouse gasses can lead to warming. But says that the data thus far had not borne out global warming…

1997 had a temperature anomaly of 0.42 C above average temperature relative to 1961-1990 avg. temperature (which is already above pre-industrial levels. >But says that the data thus far had not borne out global warming was happening. This claim is evidently horseshit. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/temperature-anomaly

I'd encourage you to actually read the article and his argument if you haven't.

But the suggestion is not against the null hypothesis that the world is not getting warmer. It was that the warming was within the bounds of established mechanisms unrelated to human activity.

There is little value in arguing about the state of mind of an author 25 years ago. Especially where we agree the outcome of reasoning was faulty.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#116

Post by MrVandemar »

tcfhgj wrote: post #108
anonzzzies wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop cutting trees and turning forests (rain or otherwise) into Savanna's. 'For agriculture'.

~agriculture~ Meat

No agriculture. Broadscale monoculture crops, grown and harvested and distributed with fossil-fuel inputs. Essentially an outdoors factory.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#117

Post by numbers_guy »

ant6n wrote: post #101
numbers_guy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The role model nonsense, I never got that. How is that supposed to do anything. As for the comparative wealth, I already earn 1/3 of what I would in the US, my home is smaller, I don't own a car and I have no A/C. And now I should also be taxed even more, while Americans who already pollute 10x as much keep doing as they please. Fuck that. That's fucking unfair and I am not willing to do that.

Crying about supposed unfairness, hows that supposed to do anything. But it is funny how people who personally make choices that reduce co2 fight against policies that would apply to everyone (well, at least in the same country, given there’s no world government).

Fairness has value in itself. To me it is just as important as climate action.

I am not convinced that making myself poorer as an example would have any impact at all, without the rest of the world playing along. And in any case it is unfair.

I would be for pretty radical action: banning cars, rationing meat/energy/consumption, but it has to be fair. Otherwise I am not willing to do it.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#118

Post by geraneum »

psychphysic wrote: post #61

No one is really interested in doing the work to slow global warming. - Build nuclear power plants everywhere . Yes even in countries like Iran and North Korea - Don't subsidize fossil fuel use by any mechanism. Yes dropping the Russian fuel cap. - Make reducing emissions a priority that means it comes first in consideration. Yes ahead of Uighurs in China, Women in Iran and Afghanistan. You will not get everything yo…

> Yes ahead of Uighurs in China, Women in Iran and Afghanistan.

When they said these are important matters in TV, did you really believe them? These, among many other issues, are not even in the queue my friend.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#119

Post by defrost »

psychphysic wrote: post #75
defrost wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear why you would post that but it's certainly worth pointing out that climate change denialism has been funded since the mid 1970s and that the author of that opinion piece is Art Robinson, a recent Oregon State Senator and long time denier via his "Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine". While it adds nothing to the history of actual earth based science it is certainly an insight into the history clim…

Thanks for posting the link so I could see the article. I did only skim it, and I'm surprised. I don't think it's an unreasonable criticism for 1997. But that's over a quarter of a century ago. He accepts CO2 is probably released by humans and apparently at a rate the sinks can't cope. He accepts that CO2 and other greenhouse gasses can lead to warming. But says that the data thus far had not borne out global warming…

Perhaps you're young.

I'm 60 and have spent much of my life in geophysics applied to energy and minerals exploration, in the development of earth scale GIS mapping and computation tools, etc.

In 1980 in computational dynamics classes looking at geophysics it was accepted that the volumes of CO2 being released were at a scale that would trap more energy and that steps need to be taken to reduce free CO2.

This was scoped out in Stockholm in 1972 at the First Earth Summit.

In 1989 the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a forum for the examination of greenhouse warming and global climate change, was established, at that time it was known that there was a problem just from the inevitable consequences of the cold equations of physics.

Data on the increasing C02 levels from sites such as Cape Grim supported the changes when coupled with trapped air sample from ice cores, etc.

Oil exploration industries were already well aware of the issues that fosil fuel use presented.

The problem wasn't that the data was insufficient, the real issue was that many people demanded a much greater level of evidence to justify them caring .. much as happened earlier with the health issues surrounding tobacco.

As I remarked above the linked opinion piece gives insight into the tactics of those that were actively spreading FUD to avoid taking action and to kick the can down the road.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#120

Post by phs318u »

klipt wrote: post #53
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems disingenuous when the climate catastrophe is going to have far greater effects on modern life. Too many people are clinging to the dream of continuing to dig out and burn as much oil as possible when it's clear that that behaviour is not sustainable. Although personal responsibility is never a bad thing, we need to focus on the big companies that have been deliberately hiding climate science for decades -…

The solution is a carbon tax, which is unpopular with big oil companies but probably also unpopular with many citizens who vote based on gas prices. We may just have to use solar radiation management instead.

> solar radiation management

Hahahaha. I can see it now: "Exxon Stratospheric Sulfur Shield - using dirty fuels in long-haul flights to create a particulate-based solar shield [0]. Partnering with governments around the globe [1] to protect the earth and boost tourism. Because we care."

[0] https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/stratospheric-aer...

[1] https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trill...

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