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Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

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Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#111

Post by FirmwareBurner »

ramblerman wrote: post #99
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Food is bad. Very xenophobic society. Where did you get your info? Swiss food quality is some of the best in the world, well regulated and mostly organic, that's why it's so expensive. How did you measure xenofobia?

By food I meant preparation, i.e. cuisine. You are right that food quality in supermarket although expensive is not bad (I wouldn't say it's as amazing as you claim either though, any french/spanish market would knock switzerland out of the park for fresh produce/meats). xenofobia is subjective, and maybe wrong word, but expat society is largely cut off from locals. I know many germans firsthand that feel they can't…

>expat society is largely cut off from locals.

I'm not Swiss but, I think you don't know what xenofobia means. Honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of these tropes, of expats who think that because locald don't chat them up, and if the baristas never greet and smile at them like it's the norm in their home country they immediately take it as the country being xenofobic.

Expat societies are mostly isolated in most other countries, because the locals already have cemented family and social circles from their youth/childhood/university, especially in the Germanic/Norther-European cultures where small-talk and chit-chat is unpopular and people mostly keep to themselves and don't interact much with people they don't know out of respecting their personal space.

> I know many germans firsthand that feel they can't integrate

Then Germans get to experience exactly how expats feel in their country. Join the club.

Snark aside, a Swiss/German/Finnish person not chatting you up and not inviting you to hang out the moment they meet you is not xenofobia, it's people keeping to themselves. Every country and culture has completely different social norms which other cultures might find "unfriendly" but that's not xenofobia.

Xenofobia means something else. And I doubt you were a target of xenofobia too often in Switzerland.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#112

Post by b3orn »

Garvi wrote: post #23
astrange wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Germany exports its image of being rational and methodical so hard they accidentally believed in it and forgot they're all naturalistic-mystic Green Party hippies and shut their nuclear plants down.

I agree in principle. But the shutdown of nuclear reactors and subsequent switch to lignite coal burning power plants didn't affect the economy as much as it did the environment. Coal power is not more expensive, it's dirtier.

> and subsequent switch to lignite coal burning power plants

Didn't happen. It's still being used but it didn't replace nuclear, lignite use is down, it was roughly constant until 2018 and is in decline since 2019.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#113

Post by FirmwareBurner »

code-blooded wrote: post #85
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But visiting a country is not the same as living, working and paying taxes in one though.

Not sure what you mean. Of course I cannot live and pay taxes in every single European country. All I say is based on limited experiences of visiting multiple countries for 1-3 month long stays and then living and paying taxes in Poland.

I meant that with your 1-3 month long stints (working remotely for a foreign company I guess?) you still have just the tourist view of a country, and not the "full package" of living there long term because you never had to deal with long term housing system, the bureaucracy, the education system, the corruption, the healthcare system, the business and tax system, the labor market, the commutes to work and the grind of the locals.

In the end you still just had the tourist experience, enjoying the best parts of life there, while being mostly isolated from the poor stuff the locals have to put up with.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#114

Post by lucasRW »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #107
lucasRW wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that the West can use the East's cheaper resources: but the benefits made there go into the pockets of those who own those businesses. However, the funding of the East is spread across the complete taxpayer via EU contributions, which is in effect, a tax.

No, it goes into the pockets of all consumers. Westerners enjoy the cheapest energy and supermarket prices on food pricelessly because the unified common market work in their flavor (of those with capital) while the consumers in the eastern block have to put up with competing with western consumer prices at eastern wages, because they can buy energy, raw materials, resources and labor from the eastern block. They als…

Gosh, I wonder why the EU countries aren't fighting each other to pay the biggest contribution to the EU budget then, because apparently an HN contributor has found the key to economic wealth: paying more to the EU !

"The money going to the eastern block for their development means more eastern consumers buying more western goods and services, which means more tax money and jobs in western countries."

> Like when Poland buys American fighterjets rather than French or German one, or when Croatia has China build the Dubrovnic bridge - https://www.politico.eu/interactive/connecting-croatia-on-a-... ?

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#115

Post by FirmwareBurner »

lucasRW wrote: post #114
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it goes into the pockets of all consumers. Westerners enjoy the cheapest energy and supermarket prices on food pricelessly because the unified common market work in their flavor (of those with capital) while the consumers in the eastern block have to put up with competing with western consumer prices at eastern wages, because they can buy energy, raw materials, resources and labor from the eastern block. They als…

Gosh, I wonder why the EU countries aren't fighting each other to pay the biggest contribution to the EU budget then, because apparently an HN contributor has found the key to economic wealth: paying more to the EU ! "The money going to the eastern block for their development means more eastern consumers buying more western goods and services, which means more tax money and jobs in western countries." > Like when Pol…

I never said what you're claiming. You're just deluding yourself at this point with FUD, and so I'll let you be to save my sanity, with this question you still haven't answered for the third time in a row:

Why aren't you (or any other western EU country) leaving the EU if you feel like it's so bad for you and those lazy poor Eastern Europeans are dragging you down? Because it seems like you're the only one with this opinion so you must know some secret of prosperity the others haven't found out, including the UK.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#116

Post by FirmwareBurner »

TMWNN wrote: post #96
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are Americans who romanticize Europe. Indeed. They don't know that many people here still have 1h+ commutes to their soul crushing 9-5 jobs just like they do, and assume everyone has a 15 minute bike ride to work through a cobble stone street or working remotely with their MacBooks in hip central cafes.

I laugh while rolling my eyes whenever I read on Reddit that "Europe" has "good transit" so doesn't need cars. Such geniuses will, of course, never ever actually have to tell a rural Irishman or Spaniard or Frenchman that there is no need for the truck he owns for the farm and the sedan his family uses every day. Or the German or Italian who ackshually has no need for the automobile he uses to commute into Frankfurt…

It's not just rural, but most smaller cities (usually less than 1MM people) that don't have great public transport connection with the extended zones that have developed around them for industry and living, where personal car ownership is the norm if you don't want to commute 2h+ via public transport.

Not every EU city has the public transport of Vienna and London, nor the cycling infrastructure of Netherlands and Copenhagen. And a lot of Americans miss this as they just look at the model cities where it's all perfect, but those are like what, 10%-20% of the EU.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#117

Post by boffinAudio »

another2another wrote: post #93
boffinAudio wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Imagine Europe and Russia aligned, such that Schengen stretched from The Hague to Anadyr. >Russia and Europe getting along would be great for the world. Russia has _no_ interest in getting along with anybody else in the world and seek to dominate. When their insidious plans started to fail in Ukraine they resorted to force. Why on earth would European counties _ever_ align with such a despotic collection of peoples?…

>Russia has _no_ interest in getting along with anybody else in the world and seek to dominate.

That is false and entirely a prejudiced idea. Your three minutes hate is over.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#118

Post by boffinAudio »

gfedtbyby wrote: post #37
boffinAudio wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> And that is why its not happening .. No that's not why it's happening. US had nothing against stronger integration between the EU and Russia in the 90s and 00s, they'd much rather focus on the Pacific. Russia chose a different path as revanchist ex-empires gennerally tend to do... > This would result in a superpower even China would have to ally with Possibly but Russia really has nothing useful to contribute besid…

Russia has plenty to contribute to an economic relationship with Europe, but your prejudices just do not allow you to see that fact.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#119

Post by boffinAudio »

murderfs wrote: post #59
boffinAudio wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Superpower" implies an ability and willingness to influence the rest of the world. Europe couldn't even align with itself to intercede in Bosnia, they just left it to a very reluctant United States. Joe Biden said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwYVKptqH_o#t=0m54s

The jury is still out, in Europe, on whether or not the US should be allowed to commit another Bosnia-scale war crime.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#120

Post by [deleted] »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #111
ramblerman wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By food I meant preparation, i.e. cuisine. You are right that food quality in supermarket although expensive is not bad (I wouldn't say it's as amazing as you claim either though, any french/spanish market would knock switzerland out of the park for fresh produce/meats). xenofobia is subjective, and maybe wrong word, but expat society is largely cut off from locals. I know many germans firsthand that feel they can't…

>expat society is largely cut off from locals. I'm not Swiss but, I think you don't know what xenofobia means. Honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of these tropes, of expats who think that because locald don't chat them up, and if the baristas never greet and smile at them like it's the norm in their home country they immediately take it as the country being xenofobic. Expat societies are mostly isolated in most other…

[deleted]
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