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The deindustrialization of Germany

politico.eu

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Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#111

Post by dontupvoteme »

tdrz wrote: post #47

I found the article quite good but has missed a couple of points that need to be mentioned: 1. The attitude of the average German consumer It seems to me that one of the national sports in Germany is to find cheaper deals for pretty much anything (and then brag about it). Even if it's fractions of a euro! After trimming down on everything that they could, the manufacturers and service providers had to finally reduce…

>This happened to such an extent that the famous "Made in Germany" is now meaningless, if not worse.

This was originally an anglo pejorative meant to denigrate the quality of German goods. Mild irony.

>2. The attitude of the average German manager

>"I am your boss, you are the employee, now shut up and do as I say" attitude does not work well in knowledge-based industries like Software. And I believe this is one of the reasons why Germany is behind in digitalization, let alone in digital innovation.

My experience has been the complete opposite.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#112

Post by alphager »

alephnerd wrote: post #78
haizhung wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politico is owned by Axel Springer, which is the German equivalent of Fox News, if that explains it.

I keep seeing people saying this about Politico and it's total FUD. I have friends who work there and it's pretty firewalled from Axel Springer. This conspiracy theory about the Politico portion seems to have started in r/Europe and r/WorldNews a couple months ago and kept getting repeated since.

So Döpfner (who is on record ordering his "journalists" to push the FDP in the last election) just bought Politico and doesn't make sure they follow the directions he sets for all the other publications owned by Springer? Seems unlikely.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#113

Post by ttepasse »

alephnerd wrote: post #78
haizhung wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politico is owned by Axel Springer, which is the German equivalent of Fox News, if that explains it.

I keep seeing people saying this about Politico and it's total FUD. I have friends who work there and it's pretty firewalled from Axel Springer. This conspiracy theory about the Politico portion seems to have started in r/Europe and r/WorldNews a couple months ago and kept getting repeated since.

Matthias Doepfner’s mails and chats including pressure to upsell the FDP in Springer’s papers leaked in April and were widely reported. That’s not a conspiracy theory. If it were, Doepfner could sue. He didn’t.

https://www.zeit.de/2023/16/mathias-doepfner-axel-springer-i...

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#114

Post by oska »

alephnerd wrote: post #78
haizhung wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politico is owned by Axel Springer, which is the German equivalent of Fox News, if that explains it.

I keep seeing people saying this about Politico and it's total FUD. I have friends who work there and it's pretty firewalled from Axel Springer. This conspiracy theory about the Politico portion seems to have started in r/Europe and r/WorldNews a couple months ago and kept getting repeated since.

A firewall operates purely in the physical world and relies on immutable properties of the physical world to function. To use it as a metaphor in the intellectual/political world (where nothing is immutable) is exceedingly unhelpful and I would say, often deliberately misleading. There is no 'firewall' inside Axel Springer, there is no 'firewalling'. Talk like that is pure nonsense.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#115

Post by ttepasse »

huijzer wrote: post #13

I have tried to go against some of the arguments because some are wrong, some are okayish, and some are just plain wrong, but I gave up. The article moves all over the place pulling random facts from all kinds of places in support of the idea that Germany is declining. Maybe that's true, maybe not. This article appears not rigorous enough to come to a right conclusion.

Since 2015 I can’t remember Matthew Karnitschnig writing a neutral or even positive article on Germany. The sky is always immediately falling. Back then it was of course the refugee crisis and other assorted culture war nonsense, but now he seems to be retooling.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#116

Post by oska »

ROTMetro wrote: post #59
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #4

And obviously the reason is the lack of labour reform and not the billions in handouts currently given by the US and China which the EU refuses to match because of its brain dead insistence on undistorted markets and fiscal rigour. Ah Politico, such well researched and reasonable journalism, it warms my heart…

Is this the same Germany that last I know allowed bribes and kickbacks on international sales to be tax deductible? We lost so many contracts because the things the Germans did were illegal for a USA company. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/1995-08-06/germany-w... I have the typical American of German descent hate for Germany because they threw my family away but now are open for everyone else to come live th…

> I have the typical American of German descent hate for Germany because they threw my family away

I've never seen this sentiment expressed before (but I'm neither of German descent nor US American). Care to expand further ?

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#117

Post by alephnerd »

ttepasse wrote: post #113
alephnerd wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing people saying this about Politico and it's total FUD. I have friends who work there and it's pretty firewalled from Axel Springer. This conspiracy theory about the Politico portion seems to have started in r/Europe and r/WorldNews a couple months ago and kept getting repeated since.

Matthias Doepfner’s mails and chats including pressure to upsell the FDP in Springer’s papers leaked in April and were widely reported. That’s not a conspiracy theory. If it were, Doepfner could sue. He didn’t. https://www.zeit.de/2023/16/mathias-doepfner-axel-springer-i...

Not denying Axel Springer's practices in Germany.

I'm just calling it as I know it having worked closely with people who currently work at Politico or used to work at Politico,

What happens in the future I can't predict, but were there to be any kind of meddling in a HEAVILY AMERICAN newsroom would

1. Be very openly reported on by their competitors

2. See a massive amount of disgruntled ex-employees leaving for Axios (eg. the exodus at Protocol), The Hill, etc.

3. Wokld be talked about openly as a lot of us have worked closely with Politico members.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#118

Post by Glawen »

rogerthis wrote: post #71
lumost wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising to me that Europeans aren't more opposed to generational wealth. Didn't many countries fight multiple wars and revolutions to overthrow/re-instate the entrenched agrarian aristocracy? why would Europeans be comfortable allowing the Entrenchment of a modern aristocracy a hundred years later?

It's always one aristocracy fighting another. It will always be. Some are better, some are worse for those below.

Well, that's a long time now that there was no fight between these aristocracies. We are maybe in the longest period without war.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#119

Post by FirmwareBurner »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #109
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>astern European people are very much german orientated. Not true in Romania at all. We're latin and way more US/angloshpere oriented than German. Where did you get your information? You're probably thinking only of the parts of the former Austrian empire which used to speak German, but the youth there is also more Anglo focused than German, and it's only a samll part of eastern Europe

It is true in Romania, too. Since the ethnic Hungarian population isn’t Latin, interest in the German language has always been higher among them, and Germany has been a magnet for Hungarian emigration from Romania. But even leaving language aside, I know a number of ethnic Romanians from Cluj and Timisoara who moved to Germany, especially Berlin a decade ago when it was viewed as the hipster capital of Europe and sti…

Sure, but the German speaking population in Romania is also due to it being part of the former Austrian empire, not because Romanians have a natureal affinity towards German.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#120

Post by OfSanguineFire »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #119
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true in Romania, too. Since the ethnic Hungarian population isn’t Latin, interest in the German language has always been higher among them, and Germany has been a magnet for Hungarian emigration from Romania. But even leaving language aside, I know a number of ethnic Romanians from Cluj and Timisoara who moved to Germany, especially Berlin a decade ago when it was viewed as the hipster capital of Europe and sti…

Sure, but the German speaking population in Romania is also due to it being part of the former Austrian empire, not because Romanians have a natureal affinity towards German.

It’s not necessarily a matter of being part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire but the role of German as a major European language of culture and learning, one that for Romania’s ethnic Hungarian population was never quite replaced by French. German has been popular in Bulgaria, too, and Germany a major destination for Bulgarian emigration, in spite of that country always being well outside any German-speaking empires.
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