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People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

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Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#111
"The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas."

This seems to overstate the actual results of the experiments. More here: http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-k...

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#112

Democracy isn't about selecting the "best leaders" - democracy is about self-determination and freedom.

Democracy isn't really about freedom at all. When the majority can overrule and extinguish the rights and freedoms of the minority, that is not freedom. It's more about mob-determination than self-determination.

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#113
post #64
post #11

Constitutional Republic yes, Democracy no. Democracy isn't desirable. Mob rule is a terrible system of government. Democracy != voting; Democracy != freedom. America and many other systems have long since proven that freedom through constitutional protections with representative government does flourish. Those systems specifically flourish by protecting the weak from the powerful, the minority from the majority. The…

Democracy isn't desirable. Mob rule is a terrible system of government. Democracy != voting; Democracy != freedom. Really? And who said democracy == mob rule? Mob is a weasel term, to imply "people when take decisions as a group are inherently bad". Well, people taking decisions as a whole has been quite nice when it happened and while it lasted (or was allowed to last). I'm thinking the Athenian Democracy, various c…

Athenian democracy was subject to bouts of mob rule - note the treasurer incidents. Courts were barbaric, and really amounted to popularity votes as jurors had little legal oversight. At the assembly level, for their credit, the criteria for citizenship required military training and voting for war generally meant you had to actually do the fighting - hence the level of peace.

Mobs form when there is no responsibility for their vote or actions. That's why in unrestrained democracies, the mob majority can disenfranchise the minority so easily and quickly.

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#114
post #23

This is what happens when one person writes an article, and another writes a link bait title. Here is the concise version. The well-known Dunning-Kruger effect says that the less competent people are, the less they are able to recognize competence. Someone named Mato Nagel used this as the basis of a toy computer model of democracy. The result of his simulations is that the leaders selected by democracy are only slig…

"global warming" You can't just include global warming with something like evolution. Global warming (isn't it Global climate change now ;-)) may be happening, but I'm still not convinced it's as man-made as supports would like us to believe. Especially when there is so much money involved in it (many scientists will lose government funding if they don't support it) and all of those emails that came out that were imm…

^-- Dunning-Kruger in effect

If you are actually in the climate science field then I appologize. I'm assuming that you don't have a rational reason to disagree with the widespread scientific consensus.

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#115
post #23

This is what happens when one person writes an article, and another writes a link bait title. Here is the concise version. The well-known Dunning-Kruger effect says that the less competent people are, the less they are able to recognize competence. Someone named Mato Nagel used this as the basis of a toy computer model of democracy. The result of his simulations is that the leaders selected by democracy are only slig…

"global warming" You can't just include global warming with something like evolution. Global warming (isn't it Global climate change now ;-)) may be happening, but I'm still not convinced it's as man-made as supports would like us to believe. Especially when there is so much money involved in it (many scientists will lose government funding if they don't support it) and all of those emails that came out that were imm…

You are exactly the person this article and post was written about.

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#116
post #23

This is what happens when one person writes an article, and another writes a link bait title. Here is the concise version. The well-known Dunning-Kruger effect says that the less competent people are, the less they are able to recognize competence. Someone named Mato Nagel used this as the basis of a toy computer model of democracy. The result of his simulations is that the leaders selected by democracy are only slig…

And so we have come to realize that soon, very soon, we will have to pioneer another form of government. We humans have had kings and queens, dictatorships, anarchy, communism, socialism, republics, democracies, and now it's time to move on to the next one. A few years ago when I was a young teenager who believed in the good of the world and the wisdom of people I would have thought the next government would naturall…

Democracy will never work because it can only work if EVERYONE is educated enough and by default humans are notoriously stupid and unaware of their own stupidity.

And here is what thinking like that gets us:

http://www.archive.org/details/nazi_concentration_camps

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#117
post #11

Constitutional Republic yes, Democracy no. Democracy isn't desirable. Mob rule is a terrible system of government. Democracy != voting; Democracy != freedom. America and many other systems have long since proven that freedom through constitutional protections with representative government does flourish. Those systems specifically flourish by protecting the weak from the powerful, the minority from the majority. The…

Constitutional Republic yes

This is a form of Democracy.

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#118
post #38
post #3

One thing that I am reminded of in the current zeitgeist with respect to capitalism and democracy is the 1930s and its condemnation of democracy as outdated and how fascism was the progressive way forward.

Interesting. Got a link?

Unfortunately not; the most recent book I read on the period was Gathering Storm, by W. S. Churchill (not the most unbiased observer, but very engaging reading).

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#119
post #49

Democracy is not about choosing one "Great Leader" and everyone else just follow. If that was the case, we don't need the congress, the high court and free press. Democracy is about "putting power into cage" and splitting cake in a way that everybody has a say. In a democratic system, "Great leader" or not, it really doesn't matter that much in the long run, we will always get there. What important is the system make…

"Democracy is about "putting power into cage" and splitting cake " Well, no. What you're describing is a Republic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic It's often confused because most democracies are also republics.

All republics that actually are republics are democracies; true republican government is a form of democracy.

Re: People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

#120
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to say almost precisely this. However, I do think it's true that people aren't smart enough for democracy, and that's a part of why we need a constitutional republic instead. Is there something wrong with that line of argumentation?

Its not that they are too smart or not, it is that far too many are too greedy or too lazy.

In a system where people are protected from one other by individual rights, someone being too lazy or too greedy (if that is even possible) can only hurt themself.

How can your laziness or greed affect me?

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