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Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

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Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#111
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that in Article 1 Section 8 is the following: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;" highlight: "provide for the common Defense and general Welfare" Seems to strongly indicate that clean wa…

Authoritarians for decades have attempting to expand "general welfare" far beyond its original remit In Federalist 41,Madison clearly states that the general welfare clause is neither a statement of ends nor a substantive grant of power. It is a mere “synonym” for the enumeration of particular powers, which are limited and wholly define its content. From this answer, it follows that the primary meaning of the nationa…

The Federalist wasn't an actual legal document, it was just the opinion of a few people (not even all of the founding fathers). You might as well be pointing to the NYT Opinion section as your source.

You can't be a strict constitutionalist and also use the words of the Federalist as a way to enhance or modify the constitution. These are contradictory viewpoints.

Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#112
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that in Article 1 Section 8 is the following: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;" highlight: "provide for the common Defense and general Welfare" Seems to strongly indicate that clean wa…

Authoritarians for decades have attempting to expand "general welfare" far beyond its original remit In Federalist 41,Madison clearly states that the general welfare clause is neither a statement of ends nor a substantive grant of power. It is a mere “synonym” for the enumeration of particular powers, which are limited and wholly define its content. From this answer, it follows that the primary meaning of the nationa…

To be fair Madison personally owned around a hundred slaves and the Constitution in Article 1 Section 2 counted slaves as three-fifths of a free individual, but please tell me again that this guy is the patron saint of defining personal freedom and the Constitution some kind of twelve commandments of freedom "Thou shalt count Black people that you hold in bondages as three fifths human". And of course let's ignore the law AS WRITTEN and instead talk about slave owner Madison's feelz on inalienable freedom (◔_◔).

Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#113
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarians for decades have attempting to expand "general welfare" far beyond its original remit In Federalist 41,Madison clearly states that the general welfare clause is neither a statement of ends nor a substantive grant of power. It is a mere “synonym” for the enumeration of particular powers, which are limited and wholly define its content. From this answer, it follows that the primary meaning of the nationa…

The Federalist wasn't an actual legal document, it was just the opinion of a few people (not even all of the founding fathers). You might as well be pointing to the NYT Opinion section as your source. You can't be a strict constitutionalist and also use the words of the Federalist as a way to enhance or modify the constitution. These are contradictory viewpoints.

>>The Federalist wasn't an actual legal document, it was just the opinion of a few people (not even all of the founding fathers)

What???

While sure it is not legally binding the Federalist are looked to by historians and even the courts to understand the original context and intent of the constitution, No different than when courts look to the debate around a given law when they are attempting to understand what Congress meant when they passed the law.

Further in this case Federalist 41 was written by Madison the person that wrote the general welfare statement, to say that is the same as citing a NYT Opinion is the height of idiocy

Further still I am strict *orginalist*. meaning I do not engage in the idea of "living document" and that the words should be interpenetrated as they mean today instead they should be used in the context of 1776. I and other orginalist do this by citing sources for that time period such as the Federalist papers to understand what the ORIGINAL MEANING of "General Welfare" was at the time it was written.

Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically there seems to be no shortage of fluoride conspiracy theories or “waters turning the frogs gay” but actual chemicals and toxins … ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The chemical is atrazine and it tests it did turn frogs from male to female. We can quibble over whether or not dosage matters but I think it should also be uncontroversial that using a chemical that disrupts hormones like that should not be used on food that we consume.

I cannot imagine we'd have many chemicals left if we banned any that caused a hormone change in non-human biology.

It is silly to be worried about things because the talking heads on the radio and tv told you to be afraid or worse because read it on the internet.

Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#116
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Federalist wasn't an actual legal document, it was just the opinion of a few people (not even all of the founding fathers). You might as well be pointing to the NYT Opinion section as your source. You can't be a strict constitutionalist and also use the words of the Federalist as a way to enhance or modify the constitution. These are contradictory viewpoints.

>>The Federalist wasn't an actual legal document, it was just the opinion of a few people (not even all of the founding fathers) What??? While sure it is not legally binding the Federalist are looked to by historians and even the courts to understand the original context and intent of the constitution, No different than when courts look to the debate around a given law when they are attempting to understand what Cong…

The Federalist papers literally argued against what became of Bill of Rights.

> The Federalist Papers (specifically Federalist No. 84) are notable for their opposition to what later became the United States Bill of Rights. The idea of adding a Bill of Rights to the Constitution was originally controversial because the Constitution, as written, did not specifically enumerate or protect the rights of the people, rather it listed the powers of the government and left all that remained to the states and the people. Alexander Hamilton, the author of Federalist No. 84, feared that such an enumeration, once written down explicitly, would later be interpreted as a list of the only rights that people had.[citation needed]

Yet we have a bill of rights!

Yeah you can absolutely use the papers to get context about what their authors were thinking. However, as I've shown with just one of many examples, you should not use the papers to claim that all the founding fathers think that way.

Even one of the other Federalists, Hamilton, disagreed with your interpretation.

> Alexander Hamilton and the Federalists took a broader view. Hamilton famously argued that the Clause authorized spending, so long as “the object, to which an appropriation of money is to be made, must be general, and not local; its operation extending in fact, or by possibility, throughout the Union, and not being confined to a particular spot.” While Hamilton did not advocate a completely unbounded interpretation of “general welfare,” under which Congress could spend money for virtually any object it considers beneficial, he and the Federalists did believe that the Clause authorized a wide range of spending for purposes that go beyond Congress’s other enumerated powers, so long as they were sufficiently “general.”

> The debate between the Madisonian and Hamiltonian views continued throughout much of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. As a general rule, Democratic presidents and members of Congress tended to adopt positions similar to Madison’s, or slightly broader. Thomas Jefferson, Madison, James Monroe, James Polk, James Buchanan, and Grover Cleveland all opposed bills authorizing spending on local infrastructure and disaster relief projects, citing constitutional objections. By contrast, the Federalists, the Whigs, and the Republicans tended to take a broader view of congressional power, closer to Hamilton’s position. Whig leader Henry Clay, for example, argued that the Clause authorized his proposal for a wide-ranging “American System” of canal and roadbuilding.

You're claim that this is what it meant back then is clearly wrong, since even back then people like Hamilton disagreed with Madison. That's why using Madison as your only guide for interpreting the constitution is, well, not really a great argument at all.

Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#117

It's high time for a big awareness campaign for things like this: cleaning up our water should be an immediately funded government project. Needs a interactive map with historical data, sort of like https://app.electricitymaps.com/map does for historic grid energy cleanliness. Surely, clean water—something we all need—should be an apolitical bipartisan issue, right? ...right?

If private companies profited from these chemicals (after knowing they were dangerous and likely to get into the water supply) they should pay back some of their profits.

Doubt we'd be able to prove it even if true.

Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#118
post #59

I advised people I know not to buy non stick pans for a very long time. It's not an easy task though

How many years of your life would you give up to save you the trouble of cleaning sticky pans every day? Asking seriously. I don't know how many I'd give, but it's definitely greater than 0.

Wish I knew exactly what I changed, but I can fry food in a plain steel pan without the food sticking... (most of the time)

I think putting the oil in and letting it get hot before cooking is probably the way to go.

Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#119
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fluoride lowering IQ is not a conspiracy theory, it's a proven fact. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41390-020-0973-8

I want to understand dose-dependency on the relationship between fluoride and IQ. Why do we have to put fluoride in the drinking water to "protect kids' teeth"? Wouldn't it be better to simply provide toothpaste and toothbrushes for free to school-age children?

Because putting fluoride in water leads to demonstrably better outcomes than just expecting parents to get kids to brush their teeth. Fluoride has no empirical impact on anything other than positive health outcomes. It would be dumb not to use it. If you are worried about what's in your water a reverse osmosis system will remove things much more harmful than fluoride and you can get rid of your horrible fluoride while you're at it.

Re: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarians for decades have attempting to expand "general welfare" far beyond its original remit In Federalist 41,Madison clearly states that the general welfare clause is neither a statement of ends nor a substantive grant of power. It is a mere “synonym” for the enumeration of particular powers, which are limited and wholly define its content. From this answer, it follows that the primary meaning of the nationa…

To be fair Madison personally owned around a hundred slaves and the Constitution in Article 1 Section 2 counted slaves as three-fifths of a free individual, but please tell me again that this guy is the patron saint of defining personal freedom and the Constitution some kind of twelve commandments of freedom "Thou shalt count Black people that you hold in bondages as three fifths human". And of course let's ignore th…

This is so profoundly ignorant that I am surprised it continues to come up.

Under your premise you would have wanted all Slaves to be counted as whole persons. This is exactly what many slave owners wanted, they wanted to have the slaves counted as whole persons so their states would have more power.

The Abolitionists wanted the slaves not to be counted at all

3/5ths was a compromise and directly lead to the eventual abolishment of slavery completely.

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