Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#111

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

kkielhofner wrote: post #99

pjc50 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just very, very dangerous (and sleazy) to give the public and society the impression these results are obtainable with some random diet, over the counter supplement, etc. Unfortunately it's also risky for them to tell the truth ("I achieved this with some sketchy prescriptions of otherwise-illegal drugs")

As I noted in my top comment TRT therapy for older men is far from sketchy/illegal at this point - to the point of hardly being controversial. Joe Rogan (as one example) has no problem saying "I'm on TRT/HRT and it's great"[0] - and he's tiny compared to these guys. Joey Diaz actually says in that clip "let's be fair to everyone out there - you're on some stuff" and to his credit Joe says "absolutely". [0] - https://…

Rogan is only tiny in the sense that he's short. He's very beefy for his height, and you can see changes around his face etc vs photographs from a decade ago.

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#112

Post by 634636346 » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

bobobob420 wrote: post #32

nkozyra wrote: post #4

TRT is now a fully embedded thing in the United States so this isn't totally surprising. I've talked to way too many 20 year olds who get cypionate from a doc in the box who manages to find "low T" It's just so easy now. And if you need it, great. But for a lot of people it's just a way to boost T for athletic/aesthetic reasons without a ton of attention to the health side of it. The risks are generally low, but boos…

When people's body stop producing testosterone on their own and they are forced to spend money on weekly injections for the rest of their life people will learn :) When you can't go anywhere or travel without your testosterone injections people will see how overkill it was to get on HRT. Hope these people are comfortable freezing their sperm. Now if you are over the age of 60-65 blast away

> HRT

Whoa, it's not HRT, it's TRT. Completely different. HRT is for people with gender dysphoria, whereas TRT is for normal, well-adjusted, no-dysphoric men to maintain healthy testosterone levels (or as high as they can convince their PCP, or more likely, a telemedicine mill, to prescribe), regardless of how healthy they eat, how much alcohol they drink, and how consistent they are with exercise and sleep.

Totally not the same thing.

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#113

Post by ravenstine » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

LanceH wrote: post #104

ravenstine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be willing to bet a substantial number of these men wouldn't take steroids if society/women didn't reward them for having a chiseled (and often times unnatural) aesthetic, so considering it gender affirming care is a stretch in the general sense.

There is the whole feeling younger, stronger, healthier aspect that people really like.

Taking exogenous steroids is usually contraindicated. Some people will take steroids for other reasons, but a key reason many people work out the gym is for the physique. Speaking as if nobody is going to the gym to look good to other people is a form of denial.

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#114

Post by ravenstine » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 3:55 PM UTC

igloopan wrote: post #42

ravenstine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be willing to bet a substantial number of these men wouldn't take steroids if society/women didn't reward them for having a chiseled (and often times unnatural) aesthetic, so considering it gender affirming care is a stretch in the general sense.

Isn't that the case with all gender-associated traits though? Women wouldn't dress the way they do if society in general didn't reward them for doing so.

That's the point.

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#115

Post by ravenstine » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #45

ravenstine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be willing to bet a substantial number of these men wouldn't take steroids if society/women didn't reward them for having a chiseled (and often times unnatural) aesthetic, so considering it gender affirming care is a stretch in the general sense.

Only tangential to the theme, but continuing your thought, in my experience the rewards for having a chiselled aesthetic comes more from men than women. It's a status marker amongst (some groups of) men. The heavily muscled male look is more of a male fantasy than female.

I agree that there are feedback loops. There are also things that women do which some speculate are motivated more by the feedback of other women than of men.

> The heavily muscled male look is more of a male fantasy than female.

Visit your local bookstore (if there still is one!) and tell me what the men on the covers of those romance novels look like.

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#116

Post by avion23 » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

TaupeRanger wrote: post #68

avion23 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The risks are generally low, but boosting to higher T levels does come with real health risks that should be met with regular testing with a doctor. Most people don't have a clue. That includes doctors. - the reference range has been adapted times and times again - testosterone levels have been falling since industrial times - for some strange and contrived reasons a lot of people think that the levels of a healthy…

You are displaying exactly the problematic cherry picking that you are railing against, but from the other side. Reference ranges are always adapted to specific populations. Testosterone levels have not necessarily been falling since industrial times - records farther back than 50-70 years are extremely error prone and sporadic since methods of testing have changed dramatically. Doctors are not saying that a 40 year…

>Reference ranges are always adapted to specific populations.

in this case, reference ranges are adapted so people don't qualify for therapy. The side effects of the low levels don't change just because you change the reference range

>Testosterone levels have not necessarily been falling since industrial times - records farther back than 50-70 years are extremely error prone and sporadic since methods of testing have changed dramatically.

My exhaustive reasearch has shown the opposite. Interestinglingly, even older guys now have higher testosterone levels than younger guys. So you can even see it in the living specimen.

>Doctors are not saying that a 40 year old having the same testosterone level as an 18 year are "unhealthy" en masse. It is simply normal for the hormone to decrease as one ages. There is no "strange and contrived reason". It's just how the human body works and isn't a problem unless it goes too low and causes dysfunction of some kind.

1. doctors say that, en masse.

2. There is some evidence that the lower testosterone levels are caused by injuries and dysfunctions. At least some studies point to that. An analogy: Age doesn't cause bad teeth. Caries and injuries cause bad teeth. If these don't happen, teeth stay healthy. Saying it's normal that your teeth fall out is lazy.

>The reason for lower testosterone is probably very boring and not some insidious thing like you're implying: people are more obese because they eat more calories, and this is strongly linked to lower testosterone levels.

You are partially right. Testosterone is regulated through estrogene. Having high estrogene limits your testosterone production. Obesity and less sport is sufficient.

But a lot of non-obese and healthy people who work out also have low testosterone levels

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#117

Post by diath » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

aSockPuppeteer wrote: post #98

Why not change to anabolic steroids in title because they’re not talking about corticosteroids. It’s extrapolated from 2015 data also. There is a lot of talk about negative effects that are widely known. At a bodybuilder or high medicinal level, you can work out multiple times per day at max effort without getting tired and only hungry or sweaty. Your brain will work at the highest efficiency but you may have issues…

What is this complete nonsensical post even?

Nobody on anabolic steroids can work out at max effort without getting tired, or being able to go without sleep, you're probably thinking of meth, not AAS.

And what do kidneys have to do with processing steroids?

And why bring up Ronnie Coleman as an example when his issue was that, 2 days after spinal surgery, against all recommendations, he decided to squat 800 pounds?

And steroids increase DHT, which can be a risk factor in PROSTATE cancer, not testicular cancer.

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#118

Post by avion23 » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 4:05 PM UTC

satysin wrote: post #52

nkozyra wrote: post #4

TRT is now a fully embedded thing in the United States so this isn't totally surprising. I've talked to way too many 20 year olds who get cypionate from a doc in the box who manages to find "low T" It's just so easy now. And if you need it, great. But for a lot of people it's just a way to boost T for athletic/aesthetic reasons without a ton of attention to the health side of it. The risks are generally low, but boos…

This is of interest to me as I saw an Endocrinologist last Monday as I had a blood test a few weeks ago and my testosterone level was "quite low" at 257 (bottom of the range being 249). Anything under 300 along with symptoms (of which I have several hence the blood test in the first place) means further investigation so I am now waiting for the results of a whole host of blood tests that I did last Tuesday that the E…

Do your own research on that. Even endocrinologists oversee obvious reasons for low testosterone.

Usually, low testosterone is more a symptom. Better fix the underlying issue. Get somebody with expertise to look at your tests (i.e. not a government-paid doctor).

Look also into thyroid etc

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#119

Post by kkielhofner » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 4:10 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #111

kkielhofner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I noted in my top comment TRT therapy for older men is far from sketchy/illegal at this point - to the point of hardly being controversial. Joe Rogan (as one example) has no problem saying "I'm on TRT/HRT and it's great"[0] - and he's tiny compared to these guys. Joey Diaz actually says in that clip "let's be fair to everyone out there - you're on some stuff" and to his credit Joe says "absolutely". [0] - https://…

Rogan is only tiny in the sense that he's short. He's very beefy for his height, and you can see changes around his face etc vs photographs from a decade ago.

Tiny is relative. Here's Joe[0] - he looks more-or-less like a diet/exercise fitness enthusiast in their 20s, which seems in line for his message/goal of "hey I'm just trying to hold on to that for as long as possible".

Here's The Rock[1] at 48 years old. You can search for in-role Ryan Reynolds, Chris Hemsworth, Henry Cavill, etc, etc - Joe is tiny by comparison and all of these actors seem to get bigger and bigger as they age (look at any of them from roles 10 years ago) - which is the exact opposite of what happens to men as they age.

Here's an example[2] of what they look like (in "Hollywood" shape, but normal for age) when not tuned-up to the max on whatever they do/take for these roles.

[0] - https://www.essentiallysports.com/ufc-mma-news-unlike-the-li...

[1] - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9166911/Dwayne...

[2] - https://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/photo-gallery/43926966/im...

Re: Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)

#120

Post by 634636346 » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

rcarr wrote: post #97

tayo42 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hah i was thinking about trt too when i saw this title. I cant believe how much seemingly casual use it is getting for people to be a little better at their hobbies.

> I cant believe how much seemingly casual use it is getting for people to be a little better at their hobbies. From my general observations, insecurity is rife in bodybuilding but generally nonexistent in powerlifting and strongman. Powerlifters/strongmen will use steroids for sport performance reasons and they’re generally in the sport because they just like lifting heavy shit. They’re not really comparing themselv…

> This is only made worse when they scan the gym and compare the weight they can lift with that of a power lifter who’s often times no where near as big yet capable of lifting more

No one in a gym is made insecure by someone who is clinically obese, irrespective of how much they can lift. It's even more ridiculous when you realize how many of these people are obese, and on steroids.