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A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

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Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#111

Post by avhon1 »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #89
drumhead wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men dont really care about the income of their partner, they're more interested in physical attributes. Maybe women have set much higher standards and the majority of men dont meet those standards. Maybe men just dont want to get married?

Google MGTOW to understand some people's theory.

Men Going Their Own Way? The internet ideology of people that have been redpilled to realize that society has been made toxic for men (by feminist women who use sex as a way to control men), and that men should reject rampant gynocentrism and avoid engaging with women, or even with society at large? That MGTOW?

Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#112

Post by pengaru »

tremon wrote: post #57
segmondy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

marriage makes it possible for some that couldn't afford houses to be able to do so, by pooling resources together.

So, what you're saying is that people marry for economic reasons rather than romantic? And when the romantic partnership fails, should people stay together in the economic partnership because they can't afford to split up? That's effectively what we've been doing for the past few decades. And the result is as shown in TFA: a generation of adults who will avoid marriage like the plague, because they've seen how toxic…

The proportion of dysfunctional miserable households I encountered as a kid during that phase where kids network a lot and visit homes/sleepovers was shocking.

In one extreme instance the parents had divvied up the house with dad ending up in a quasi-finished basement like an unwanted old dog. If they ever crossed paths it was an instant war.

Fortunately divorce has become much more acceptable since those days (this was in the 80s). Back then people would stay trapped in an unhealthy marriage 'til death do us part'.

Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#113

Post by mindslight »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #16

Mostly just economics, is my wager. In a classic agrarian economy, having a spouse and making children works out -- more children = more hands = more work done = more food or more product to market. In a modern "pure" capitalist industrial/service economy, the economic model doesn't pay for the cost of the reproduction of the labour it depends on. So not a surprise when people do the same cost-benefit analysis for th…

My own perspective of rough thought, which I doubt is responsible for the overall societal trend, but perhaps points to a dynamic that is part of it:

Marriage collapses two separate legal entities into a single entity, putting you even more at the mercy of the increasingly extractive financial/legal system. In a committed relationship, how does it make sense to throw away the flexibility of having independent legal entities for each of you, especially when creating new solid legal entities is quite expensive ?

With everything being increasingly financialized (eg the medical billing industry cancer), there are many sources of extreme liability these days. Long tail events that can stick you with some insane amount of debt that will drastically alter the course of your life. If we're married, any debts pinned on my partner automatically end up being my responsibility, meaning our entire life is completely at risk.

Whereas if we're not married, then each one of us is effectively holding half of our wealth in an informal trust for both of us. And for solidifying and committing to that arrangement, it would seem these trusts could be formalized in a way the courts would have to respect. Rather than defaulting to the expected traditional legal transaction, becoming a singular entity, and then having to grasp at sketchy asset protection methods and the like.

Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#114

Post by ivan_gammel »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #98
ivan_gammel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a look at Israel with their incredibly high fertility rate among secular population. They have the same access to social media, games etc. What they also have is a set of family friendly policies, which make it easier for couples to plan their life and their careers. Culture and lifestyle also matters, of course. It will be interesting to see how living in densely populated urban area vs typical American suburbi…

Secular Israeli fertility rate does not seem materially higher. https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2022/08/18/... https://archive.is/8FAsi/4ca20b298a776c0318c24337c475fa4dce0... https://www.taubcenter.org.il/en/research/israels-exceptiona... >Though Haredim are just 13% of the population, their offspring make up 19% of Israeli children under the age of 14, and 24% of those under the age of four. >As can…

My point is, excluding Haredi their fertility rate is high enough for population growth and it is significantly higher than in other developed countries even among secular population. Naïve hypotheses like above cannot explain that.

Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#115

Post by hospitalJail »

wonderwonder wrote: post #102
hospitalJail wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesnt matter if they are attractive or just trying to grocery shop. You can still talk to people. I was at a wedding a few weeks ago, specifically looking for donors or entrepreneurial minded people. When I found out that a dude worked at Amazon Warehouse, I didn't turn around and walk away, I wrapped up the conversation and--- Oh my gosh this guy has a super cool hobby with a ton of skill. I got his phone number be…

Its not the initiator I am talking about, its the person getting hit on. Imagine having to deal with that all the time. I liken it to telemarketers. I get 4 a day sometimes, eventually I just tell them to F off in my moment of weakness because I am trying to just have focus time. Eventually the person being hit on every day will hit a breaking point and be rude, then she is labeled a bitch by that person and every ti…

This is almost entirely in your head.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying to interrupt someone mid-run or talk to someone focused with ear-buds in.

If someone is leaving the gym, you can say 'hey got a sec?', If they answer 'no', that is their answer.

(Also, people who put makeup and tight pants on for the gym, are looking to be hit on. The people trying to be ignored, will put 0 effort into their appearance and will have a stare 100 ft in front of them. Even if you miss these signs, the worst thing that is going to happen is that you are turned down and they wasted 5 minutes. I'm sure the married people ITT had no issue interrupting these beautiful people's precious time. )

EDIT: If you need to, have a bonus reason for talking to someone: "I'm trying to find someone who knows nutrition for a nonprofit" or "I'm looking for a mechanical engineer for a product I'm thinking about".

Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#116

Post by mushbino »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #82

There are a variety of reasons this is happening. Most of which are political suicide to bring up. Se lets all enjoy the descent into a 3rd world state. If you wanna actually find yourself in a relationship, do what I did and travel to other countries. Contrary to the mainstream narrative perpetuated by american propaganda, most women outside america aren't "poor and uneducated and looking for a passport."

This is right on the money. I've lived outside of the US a couple of different times and I found out to be true as well. It's harder and harder to imagine the future in the US getting any better. Quite the opposite. Many people can feel it even if they don't understand why.

Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#117

Post by wonderwonder »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #114
lotsofpulp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secular Israeli fertility rate does not seem materially higher. https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2022/08/18/... https://archive.is/8FAsi/4ca20b298a776c0318c24337c475fa4dce0... https://www.taubcenter.org.il/en/research/israels-exceptiona... >Though Haredim are just 13% of the population, their offspring make up 19% of Israeli children under the age of 14, and 24% of those under the age of four. >As can…

My point is, excluding Haredi their fertility rate is high enough for population growth and it is significantly higher than in other developed countries even among secular population. Naïve hypotheses like above cannot explain that.

Replacement fertility rate is 2.1. There is also a built in commonality in Israel as everyone has something in common, they are all jews. Your point of higher than most of the western world is very valid though but I wonder if the "we are all X here" lends itself to that.

Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#119

Post by 29athrowaway »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #56
29athrowaway wrote: post #19

The chart is just another "wtf happened in 1971" moment. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ What happened in 1971? The Nixon Shock, which is when the dollar stopped being convertible to gold after it became evident that the US did not have the gold it claimed to have.

Sorry but it's a lot less conspirational than that. The early 70s is when the long post-war economic boom ended, and corporate profits globally began to contract for an extended period of time, long wave decline. Along with it came a longer term trend of declining take-home earning rights, a huge decline in unionization, waves of inflation followed by severe recessions, etc. The gold standard stuff is hilariously red…

The Nixon Shock is the end of the Bretton Woods system (the post-war economic system) which is how "the post-war economic boom ended".

So that paragraph reads like "You are wrong because [essentially the same thing you said phrased differently]".

Re: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married

#120

Post by CountSessine »

segmondy wrote: post #42
dougmwne wrote: post #6

The trend of less education means less marriage is interesting. I think that tells me the root cause is that 25% of 40 year olds are not financially attractive mates. I think this speaks to a broader trend of men not being able to meet the traditional expectations of the breadwinner in an increasingly precarious economy.

less education? the US has never been more educated.

Not time trend - category trend. The dataset shows that the less education you have the less likely it is you’ll be married at 40.
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