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Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

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Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#111

Post by CommitSyn »

kemayo wrote: post #81
bunga-bunga wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a cop-out. They can't possibly verify that any content they're hosting isn't already copyrighted, let alone in a "murky copyright state"

They have a manual review step when you submit a game. Although you're right that they can't catch everything, they can certainly catch obvious things. I'm sure they mostly just don't want to wind up in court with a lawyer being able to say that they let [blatant example here] get published on their store. So long as they can credibly claim that there was no way for them to tell something was in an objectionable cate…

I wonder how automated their system is. They obviously wouldn't boot the game up and start walking around because they can just extract the media files and check. But I'm curious if there is a system that identifies copyrighted images/video stills and searches for copyrighted words.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#112

Post by XCSme »

nemomarx wrote: post #93
XCSme wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can that even be proven/tested?

They can ask you to say that you own all the relevant rights, and then if it turns out not to be true later they can say they don't know. Which seems like as much as you can hope for in a policy?

But how does this work for YouTube for example? People still upload copyrighted stuff, even if the ToS says you shouldn't.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#113

Post by pengaru »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #63
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #33

We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. It will happen regardless, but any oasis of real content will become important. Automation will be a force multiplier for laziness and predation more so than for creativity.

>We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. Everywhere. Games, porn, text, articles, music, etc. For the generation that grew up with the internet already existing, this is their epoch moment, lives pre and post generative AIs. I was thinking the other day that original artworks are going to be far more valued with a glut of AI generated. Thinking slightly ahead, you can find your absolute favorite ar…

You must have never seen the original Bladerunner if you found this line of thinking as original...

"you think I'd be working in a place like this if I could afford a real snake?!?"

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#114

Post by justapassenger »

bunga-bunga wrote: post #64
kemayo wrote: post #9

> After reviewing, we have identified intellectual property in [Game Name Here] which appears to belongs to one or more third parties. In particular, [Game Name Here] contains art assets generated by artificial intelligence that appears to be relying on copyrighted material owned by third parties. As the legal ownership of such AI-generated art is unclear, we cannot ship your game while it contains these AI-generated…

Sounds like a cop-out. They can't possibly verify that any content they're hosting isn't already copyrighted, let alone in a "murky copyright state"

Risk management. AI generated content has high likelihood of copyright infringement.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#115

Post by yomlica8 »

Wouter33 wrote: post #7
kevinh wrote: post #3

I'd wait for more information before making any assumptions about what Valve is doing here. So often these stories here are lacking context due to only one side trying to paint the situation in a very one-sided light.

Valve is quite clear about their reasoning. Since AI models use all kind of sources for their training, they don't want those assets on their platform because they are afraid of copyright claims.

It actually sounds like if you claim to have ownership of the training data you can still use AI generated assets. For most people this is a distinction without a difference however.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#116

Post by crazygringo »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #33

We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. It will happen regardless, but any oasis of real content will become important. Automation will be a force multiplier for laziness and predation more so than for creativity.

> We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis.

No, we've been inundated with low-quality content for decades now. This is nothing new.

Fortunately, ratings and reviews and popularity have always been an extremely effective antidote.

Even if 99% of stuff on a platform is total crap, nobody cares. It's a non-issue. Whether you're talking about music, books, TV shows, or whatever. The 1% rises to the top and you don't honestly need to pay attention to the rest.

If you choose to pay $20 for something that has 3 reviews that are all 1-star, then that's more your problem than the system's problem.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#117

Post by mcpackieh »

imdsm wrote: post #65
GaggiX wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

atomic heart, high on life, hawken reborn, observation duty and probably many others, but no they are not banned.

Hypocrisy is alive and well

Or maybe the developers of those games have given their assurance to Valve that they own all the relevant copyright, and therefore the same standard is being applied?

> As the legal ownership of such AI-generated art is unclear, we cannot ship your game while it contains these AI-generated assets, unless you can affirmatively confirm that you own the rights to all of the IP used in the data set that trained the AI to create the assets in your game.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#119

Post by dragonwriter »

Vermeulen wrote: post #108
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #44

That seems pretty sensible. There have been lawsuits from artists before. Do you want to risk a game selling 10m copies and then it turns out that all the art was just copied and pasted by the "AI" and Valve is now on the hook. Also from a store perspective, any game where shortcuts like this are used tend to be shit games. They don't want spam games to be pumped. There's already enough indie trash platformers that n…

There are already successful Steam games known to have used AI art. And this is only in the cases of the developers publicly admitting that. High On Life used Midjourney for it's ingame posters - https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/1583230/ - https://www.thegamer.com/high-on-life-ai-generated-art/ And Firmament https://store.steampowered.com/app/754890/Firmament/ - https://www.pcgamer.com/firmament-ai-generat…

No, the developers just need to “affirmatively confirm” that the own the copyright on all the works in Midjourney’s training set, and they are good.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#120

Post by giobox »

bilalq wrote: post #72
giobox wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is very clearly a line most people will understand between what DLSS does, and generating completely new art that mimic existing intellectual property. No one is ever going to accuse DLSS of creating new art works containing some other legal entity's existing IP for example, its literally just a (very clever) upscaling of the original art. If it did, it would presumably render the game being upscaled almost unp…

There may be a line between there somewhere, but it's not at all clear where it is. What about generating foliage or varied ground textures? What about generating buildings? Or NPCs? Also, the "just upscaling" relies on training data from outside your own game. Why is that okay when the rest of this isn't? I totally get why Valve is taking the stance that they are. I imagine its hard even for them to know where to dr…

> What about generating foliage or varied ground textures? What about generating buildings? Or NPCs?

This isn't how NVidia DLSS or AMD FSR works at all. DLSS/FSR can't create new buildings or foliage, or NPCs, so hard to foresee problems of the kind Valve are concerned with. Same for varied ground textures- the entire point of the technology is to sharpen and upscale the original image, or in case of DLSS3 inject new matching frames.

The only "risk" to DLSS is in Nvidia's own training data, but there is no "risk" of another company's existing IP leaking into final frame - again if there was, gamers wouldn't want to use it, as its destroying the original frame! If the resulting frame isn't a near perfect match for the original, DLSS has failed. Thankfully it does nearly perfectly match the original in use and alongside AMD's FSR 2.0 stuff has been one of the best advancements in gaming technology of recent years - effectively significant FPS boost "for free" on same hardware.

> https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/dlss/

> https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/fidelityfx-super-resolut...

While the line may be gray for other AI technologies in gaming, such as using it create new original textures or models, DLSS/FSR is just a really good upscaler - no "new" content being created and therefore no risk of IP infringement. To be really blunt; FSR and DLSS are in almost every new game for the last couple of years on both PC and console across literally hundreds of games now - if there was IP infringement issues, we would know by now - we are already onto second/third generations of these upscalers.

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