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JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

theregister.com

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Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#111

Post by mandmandam »

andsoitis wrote: post #97
r13a wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that if you were to be held in contempt of court, your fine would probably be higher than something like 0.01% of your annual earnings.

>The difference is that if you were to be held in contempt of court, your fine would probably be higher than something like 0.01% of your annual earnings. Fines are not based ad hoc on how much you're able to pay. They're standard and the enforcer can't make you pay more - that would be terrible.

> that would be terrible.

Lots of countries run fines exactly this way, and it's not terrible at all... Finland, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Denmark etc.

Kinda seems like you feel the concept of equality is unfair. Lol.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#112

Post by mandmandam »

andsoitis wrote: post #109
mandmandam wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% yes. [0], [1], [2], [3], [4], etc. 0 - https://unlimitedhangout.com/2023/04/investigative-series/cr... 1 - https://trendingpoliticsnews.com/breaking-attorney-general-t... 2 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35959865 3 - https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8260-20 4 - https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/09/22/3-count-felon-jpmorg...

> https://unlimitedhangout.com/2023/04/investigative-series/cr... Now there's a reliable source!

Well, since the number of mainstream outlets investigating Epstein's links to the mega-wealthy with appropriate depth is precisely zero, we need to adjust our standards a bit.

If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#113

Post by wongarsu »

So the story is basically:

1. data that has to be retained for legal reasons can't be deleted by normal deletion processes

2. data that should be deleted didn't delete properly

3. to fix (2) they manually ran delete requests for times up to about the current date (back in 2018), relying on (1) to protect data

4. turns out somebody forgot to configure (1) for emails send to domains belonging to Chase (at that point the merger was 18 years ago)

5. It took 1.5 years for anyone to notice.

To me it seems like number 5 is the biggest problem here. Mistakes happen, but had they noticed in time they likely would have had those messages in backups (if they don't, that's a much bigger problem). But they probably don't retain the backups for long, for the same reasons they delete old emails in the first place (legal discovery)

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#114

Post by 411111111111111 »

andsoitis wrote: post #106
drowsspa wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How relevant are the 300,000 employees? Do they all had access to this information?

The scale of record keeping in a place like JP Morgan is enormous. Just payments transactions are about $10 trillion a day. Unless documents are ring fenced from the start and not many systems and people have access to it, it is highly unlikely that someone is able to destroy it in all the right places without anybody noticing. If you read the link in my previous comment, you'll see this isn't the first time they got…

On the one hand you're saying it can't be done without some whistleblower turning up, on the other hand you think that its possible to happen accidentally.

It's kinda either/or. It's either possible that someone can get full admin privileges and deletes it off-the-record or they've got enough safeguards in place that the accidental deletion isn't possible either.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#115

Post by andsoitis »

alexfromapex wrote: post #103
andsoitis wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think JP Morgan, which has about 300,000 employees, has a secret network of corrupt actors at an administrative level to carry out something like this on purpose without someone blowing the whistle? I think this is more likely: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2021-262

There doesn't have to be a "network". This probably reached the highest executive levels and a few of them discussed it and said let's accidentally delete this and take the fine. You're incredibly naive if you think this wasn't intentional.

> highest executive levels and a few of them discussed it and said let's accidentally delete this

So you think a few C-level execs went to 8,700 mail boxes and deleted 47 million messages to remove the EXACT evidence that was being subpoenaed?

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#116

Post by subpar »

duckmysick wrote: post #56
tsukikage wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, but unironically. When a law requires data to be retained for X time, risk-averse companies interpret this as an instruction to immediately delete said data as soon as time X passes, and use automated tools to this end. Sadly, these tools tend to be ad-hoc software written and maintained by internal teams, and thus about as buggy as you'd expect. I've worked in such places, and - in addition to all the other is…

Are there off-the-shelf solutions for legally mandated data retention and deletion? If not, who are the typical go-to players in this area?

We're in the early days of building this over at phaselab.co. We've been taking more of a data privacy angle, but the product helps folks operationalize all of their data lifecycle / governance tasks. There are some existing players who work with email/comms, but for internal technical systems & user data most orgs are rolling their own deletion pipelines.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#117

Post by mikeryan »

ranting-moth wrote: post #16

IANAL but in many countries the judge might draw adverse inference and effectively assume what was in that evidence. That wouldn't be in the deleters interest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_inference

I can’t tell from the article but JP Morgan may not be the defendant or target of investigation, in which case adverse interference won’t apply.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#118

Post by sensanaty »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #98
sensanaty wrote: post #46

If it weren't so depressing it'd be incredibly hilarious how blatant and open the corruption here is, as if anyone on planet earth is gonna buy this BS story. The fines for these types of accidents should be starting with the letter B and ending with illions, lets see how often these types of mistakes happen in the future afterwards.

Do establish in what way these fines are at all reasonable or appropriate. I don't think you know to what level this data loss is if you're being this reactionary.

> reasonable or appropriate

That's the point, they shouldn't be "reasonable" nor "appropriate" for an entity as large and with as many resources as JPM. Surely with the 300k employees they have and the literal infinite well of money they have, there's a few competent individuals working there to prevent these sort of "mistakes" from happening, and if not then they should either find some competent people, or cease to exist.

What's reasonable about charging them 4 million? It's not even a drop in the bucket, it's a singular molecule of water getting inserted into the bucket if we're talking about JPM.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#120

Post by yehosef »

hinata08 wrote: post #89
sensanaty wrote: post #46

If it weren't so depressing it'd be incredibly hilarious how blatant and open the corruption here is, as if anyone on planet earth is gonna buy this BS story. The fines for these types of accidents should be starting with the letter B and ending with illions, lets see how often these types of mistakes happen in the future afterwards.

Why fines ? Fines for this type of accident should be the permanent removal of the banking license. What kind of company can you trust if evidence can be deleted "by accident" ?

Governments do not just "remove the banking license" of JP Morgan.
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