Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Goodbye, Twilio

blog.miguelgrinberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 353 posts

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#111

Post by nordsieck »

refulgentis wrote: post #110
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #103

There’s nothing surprising here. This is a typical cycle for a venture backed technology business. There’s just nothing else to say here other than this is 100% expected outcome if you decide to build a product on venture capital money, which requires an exit and an increasingly large exit to the point where you IPO. Unless you avoid this structural pathway, you will be 100% guaranteed to do this. I am unaware of a v…

Who is Jeff Lawson and what thread did he jump into?

> Who is Jeff Lawson

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffiel/

"CEO and cofounder of Twilio"

> and what thread did he jump into?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36383229

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#112

Post by [deleted] »

nordsieck wrote: post #111
refulgentis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is Jeff Lawson and what thread did he jump into?

> Who is Jeff Lawson https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffiel/ "CEO and cofounder of Twilio" > and what thread did he jump into? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36383229

[deleted]

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#114

Post by jeffiel »

swyx wrote: post #100
jeffiel wrote: post #36

Thank you Miguel for all of your contributions to Twilio over the past four years, and I hope your next gig is just as rewarding! For all those interested in why we acquired Segment, and are focused on the integration of data and communications -- several years ago, we came to the conclusion that the world doesn't need more communications, it needs better communications. More relevant. More effective. As a developer,…

first of all, big admirer of you. if you feel inclined, would really love your comment on OP's observation: > Sadly, us developers are not at the center of everything anymore at Twilio. it does seem the recent messaging has de emphasized that in favor of "Customer Engagement Platform". as the originator of "Ask Your Developer" (I read your book!) that has to sting a little bit. would love to hear your thinking on how…

At this phase we have to talk both to the business and to developers. Only talking to developers isn’t savvy or smart. AWS etc do the same thing.

We can have good APIs and make a compelling case to the business why they should pay for it.

I agree that sometimes our engagement messaging isn’t quite right for developers. As a developer, I prefer more technical and matter of fact marketing of products. But interestingly, as a CEO, sometimes I need companies to simplify the message especially in a domain I’m not an expert in and don’t want to become an expert in!

For the entrepreneurs in the HN community, it’s talking features vs benefits. Developers love what a product does in a literal sense because they’re close to the implementation. Business folks tend to look for the benefit statements more as they’re not as close to the implementation. It’s a like to walk when you’re talking to both!

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#115

Post by Gooblebrai »

rewmie wrote: post #104
paxys wrote: post #97

"The company was great when it was just engineers, but then they hired account managers and sales reps and business people and marketers who ruined everything." Common refrain from developers at SaaS companies who don't realize that the party they were enjoying all these years was directly funded by VC dollars, and these other people who they hate so much in fact do critical jobs and are necessary for converting all…

> (...) and these other people who they hate so much in fact do critical jobs and (...) Just because someone is hired for a position of a sales rep/account manager/business people, that does not mean they walk over water. Those positions attract plenty of types whose primary skill is to leverage their soft skills talent to latch themselves to a organization while delivering no added value at all.

Very interested in knowing why do you think they don't add any value?

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#116

Post by 29athrowaway »

cyberax wrote: post #78
29athrowaway wrote: post #7

It seems the MBAs are at it again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4VBqTViEx4 Twilio is now another Xerox. MBA programs should be illegal. You can thank MBAs for spreading PFAS everywhere, single use plastic, profiteering from insulin, making every American a diabetic by adding sugar into everything, selling glyphosate for residential use, killing all the pollinators, moving all manufacturing to countries with no en…

> selling glyphosate for residential use What's wrong with glyphosate?

Read the safety data sheet, see what precautions are needed and then ask an average residential roundup user if they care at all about following those instructions.

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#117

Post by yesimahuman »

buro9 wrote: post #6

There is a certain point at which the engineering is no longer what makes a company successful, it fuels an initial growth and can sustain it longer, but then the deciding thing on whether the company survives and thrives becomes the more operational aspects, the traditional sales & marketing. With the product-market fit nailed, a solid offering out there, Twilio now occupies that later stage, and the buildboard refl…

To me there's just an argument for effective marketing. That new billboard can't be more effective at generating industry and brand awareness, can it? It's so forgettable. It's _mediocre_, and reads just like every other uninteresting stat point most B2B enterprise SaaS companies put out there. That's the part that I don't get, even if they are moving up market and away from a pure developer play, that kind of messaging still should raise Twilio's stature, no?

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#118

Post by eightysixfour »

rewmie wrote: post #108
paxys wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say the same for engineers, and really anyone else.

A startup lives and dies by the engineers. Without them there is no product. This very case documents how engineers created value only to get new arrivals whose net contribution is non-positive, to the point they effectively drive out the talent that made everything possible.

No, a startup lives and dies by revenue or fundraising. Engineers are a means of achieving revenue for many startups, but that does not mean they live and die by their engineers. There are plenty of large companies that got there without engineering excellence.

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#119

Post by nasduia »

jeffiel wrote: post #114
swyx wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

first of all, big admirer of you. if you feel inclined, would really love your comment on OP's observation: > Sadly, us developers are not at the center of everything anymore at Twilio. it does seem the recent messaging has de emphasized that in favor of "Customer Engagement Platform". as the originator of "Ask Your Developer" (I read your book!) that has to sting a little bit. would love to hear your thinking on how…

At this phase we have to talk both to the business and to developers. Only talking to developers isn’t savvy or smart. AWS etc do the same thing. We can have good APIs and make a compelling case to the business why they should pay for it. I agree that sometimes our engagement messaging isn’t quite right for developers. As a developer, I prefer more technical and matter of fact marketing of products. But interestingly…

I'd be interested to know how you think the business folks should judge the benefit statements without the detail that they could run by experienced developers? Surely they get a lot of vapourware pitches all the time.

Re: Goodbye, Twilio

#120

Post by nine_zeros »

cj wrote: post #50
coderintherye wrote: post #33

The really sad thing is the executive team / board / investors not being able to comprehend that they could vastly increase their revenue (and profit) by just providing expanded technical services to me (an existing customer). There are a ton of things I would pay Twilio for beyond SMS and WhatsApp Messaging. You don't need a MBA to figure that out, you just need someone talking to your customers and an engineering a…

Anecdotally, I think one result of the layoffs of the past couple years has been companies 1) really focusing and doubling down on existing product lines, less experiments outside core competencies 2) double down on focus on top 20% paying customers, pull back hands on support for smaller clients, focus on keeping (and upselling) existing large clients with less focus on the bottom 50th percentile

I have seen number 2 at my company. They've given up on midsized and startup companies. They are only chasing the large ones and government contracts.

Which makes sense from a shareholder perspective as they look to leech as much return as possible. But, it also ensures that the company is not going to innovate anytime soon.

Post reply on HN