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Subreddit Migration Directory

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Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#111

Post by skissane »

fzeroracer wrote: post #108
skissane wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you care if your email provider happens to give accounts to Nazis or communists or religious nuts, if you never happen to exchange emails with them? Do you care if your web host happens to host their websites? Why should a "federated Reddit replacement" have to be any different? If you subscribe to subs X and Y and Z, and none of that stuff is in those subs, does it matter to you if the instance (or other instance…

> Do you care if your email provider happens to give accounts to Nazis or communists or religious nuts Email providers very explicitly do care. You can be banned from gmail for especially egregious things for example. If an email account was serving me nazi propaganda I would inform the platform, and if it was coming from a specific email provider they would likely be blacklisted. Keep in mind this already happens wh…

> Email providers very explicitly do care.

That wasn't what I was asking though – I was asking whether a user should care. Why should I care who else uses my email provider, if I never interact with them?

> You can be banned from gmail for especially egregious things for example.

Gmail will only ban you for "especially egregious things". The Mastodon Server Covenant clause 1 calls for banning people for things which Gmail would not consider "especially egregious". A big difference.

> Generally speaking, yes. We went over this before with Cloudflare

I don't consider who a CDN's other customers might be when deciding which CDN to use. I'm sure many CDNs provide services to websites advocating viewpoints which I view as foolish, even reprehensible–but I don't see what relevance that has to my own decision as to which CDN I should use for my own site.

> Many subreddits have bots, automod etc that will ban people that are from certain subreddits

I think that kind of behaviour is toxic, and I would never knowingly participate in any subreddit that did that. But, in any event, that's a community-level issue, not an instance-level one, and as such I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic of federation.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#112

Post by skissane »

worrycue wrote: post #104
skissane wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not an issue, that's the intent of federation People keep on comparing Mastodon to email. But, have you ever tried to send someone an email and had the email rejected with an error from your email provider saying "You can't talk to that domain because it insufficiently polices hate speech" or even "You can't talk to that domain because it lets its users talk to domains that insufficiently police hate speech"…

> But, have you ever tried to send someone an email and had the email rejected with an error from your email provider saying "You can't talk to that domain because it insufficiently polices hate speech" or even "You can't talk to that domain because it lets its users talk to domains that insufficiently police hate speech"? Yet my impression of Mastodon is it is just like that. That's how it is on Reddit too no? You v…

> That's how it is on Reddit too no? You visit and post a comment on subreddit A, somehow mods in subreddit B will find out and pre-emptively ban you.

I've been avoiding Reddit recently, but when I used to use it – I never agreed with that kind of behaviour, and any subreddit which does it is one I don't want to be part of.

However, that said, that's community-level not instance-level, and so I'm not sure what that has to do with federation.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#113

Post by BasedAnon »

viraptor wrote: post #54
jakecopp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a feature, not a bug. Moderation in the fediverse (inc. Mastodon & Lemmy) means defederating from "problematic" instances, where problematic is defined in the rules of the server doing the federating server (which appears to be documented at https://beehaw.org/instances ) This means moderation happens at a community & instance level rather than global moderation. Please correct me if I'm missing something - I'…

That's correct. Defereration is a moderation tool. There are instances which explicitly cater to bad behaviour and they will be dropped by many others. It's fine. (Yes yes, it's not perfect and random problems do happen) It's actually problematic when instances get too large to fail (like the two biggest mastodon ones), because when their mods cannot cope anymore, you can't realistically ban the whole insurance - too…

>It's actually problematic when instances get too large to fail (like the two biggest mastodon ones), because when their mods cannot cope anymore

Or like Twitter, and every other large social media network. So much straight up criminal stuff flies under the radar simply because it's impossible for a handful of people to police that many people.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#114

Post by TeMPOraL »

worrycue wrote: post #104
skissane wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not an issue, that's the intent of federation People keep on comparing Mastodon to email. But, have you ever tried to send someone an email and had the email rejected with an error from your email provider saying "You can't talk to that domain because it insufficiently polices hate speech" or even "You can't talk to that domain because it lets its users talk to domains that insufficiently police hate speech"…

> But, have you ever tried to send someone an email and had the email rejected with an error from your email provider saying "You can't talk to that domain because it insufficiently polices hate speech" or even "You can't talk to that domain because it lets its users talk to domains that insufficiently police hate speech"? Yet my impression of Mastodon is it is just like that. That's how it is on Reddit too no? You v…

> That's how it is on Reddit too no? You visit and post a comment on subreddit A, somehow mods in subreddit B will find out and pre-emptively ban you.

Almost no one runs a personal instance. Most people have accounts on multi user instances. This is unlike reddit, where accounts are global and independent of subreddits. On reddit, mods from subreddit B can preemptively ban you after they learn that subreddit A doesn't like you. But they can't ban entire subreddit, say C, so that every user that's subscribing to C can no longer interact with anyone subscribed to B. This is the scenario that plagues Mastodon - not individual blocks, but defederating whole instances.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#115

Post by BasedAnon »

camdenlock wrote: post #69
lolinder wrote: post #45

Beehaw became a hub for the exodus largely through a misunderstanding—they were already active when Lemmy exploded, so a lot of the exiles found their way into their communities, but Beehaw's culture is in a lot of respects incompatible with Reddit's. It was only a matter of time before they decided preserving their community was more important than sheltering all of Reddit's exiles. I highly recommend reading Beehaw…

I read it. It’s bizarre. They’re so convinced of their preferred ideology that they refer to indoctrination as simply “becoming a better person”. One doesn’t come across such intense blindness of self like that very often. Steer clear.

The whole point of an ideology is to give you a way to view the world. If you didn't believe it was better than other ideologies there would be no point in that ideology. It's not self-blindness to believe in what you claim to (although that's not to say I believe what they believe).

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#116

Post by fzeroracer »

skissane wrote: post #111
fzeroracer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you care if your email provider happens to give accounts to Nazis or communists or religious nuts Email providers very explicitly do care. You can be banned from gmail for especially egregious things for example. If an email account was serving me nazi propaganda I would inform the platform, and if it was coming from a specific email provider they would likely be blacklisted. Keep in mind this already happens wh…

> Email providers very explicitly do care. That wasn't what I was asking though – I was asking whether a user should care. Why should I care who else uses my email provider, if I never interact with them? > You can be banned from gmail for especially egregious things for example. Gmail will only ban you for "especially egregious things". The Mastodon Server Covenant clause 1 calls for banning people for things which…

> But, in any event, that's a community-level issue, not an instance-level one, and as such I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic of federation.

Instance == Community. The rest of your post I've already addressed and I'm not going to go over again. You calling out the Mastodon Server Covenant does not particularly make sense because it's not an authority, it's a listing of servers. Again you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how federation works given that you keep using incorrect comparisons.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#117

Post by skissane »

fzeroracer wrote: post #116
skissane wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Email providers very explicitly do care. That wasn't what I was asking though – I was asking whether a user should care. Why should I care who else uses my email provider, if I never interact with them? > You can be banned from gmail for especially egregious things for example. Gmail will only ban you for "especially egregious things". The Mastodon Server Covenant clause 1 calls for banning people for things which…

> But, in any event, that's a community-level issue, not an instance-level one, and as such I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic of federation. Instance == Community. The rest of your post I've already addressed and I'm not going to go over again. You calling out the Mastodon Server Covenant does not particularly make sense because it's not an authority, it's a listing of servers. Again you seem to have a fu…

> Instance == Community

A whole instance is not necessarily a single community.

People keep on defending Mastodon by comparing it to email – an email provider is not necessarily a community.

If we are talking about a federated Reddit-clone (Mastodon is more a federated Twitter-clone) – the communities are the subreddits (or whatever the clone chooses to call them) not the instances.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#118

Post by fzeroracer »

skissane wrote: post #117
fzeroracer wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, in any event, that's a community-level issue, not an instance-level one, and as such I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic of federation. Instance == Community. The rest of your post I've already addressed and I'm not going to go over again. You calling out the Mastodon Server Covenant does not particularly make sense because it's not an authority, it's a listing of servers. Again you seem to have a fu…

> Instance == Community A whole instance is not necessarily a single community. People keep on defending Mastodon by comparing it to email – an email provider is not necessarily a community. If we are talking about a federated Reddit-clone (Mastodon is more a federated Twitter-clone) – the communities are the subreddits (or whatever the clone chooses to call them) not the instances.

An instance is a community, period. This is like trying to argue that subforums on a forum is not a single community. They may be smaller blocks within a larger community, but they still form a larger community as a whole and adhere to a generalized ruleset.

You're the one that keeps comparing it to email, so I recommend you stop. Simple as that. Ctrl-F this thread and every response that has to do with email starts with you. I've explicitly compared it to IRC and forums.

Your last point is incorrect. Beehaw is a reddit alternative. They defederated from other instances because other instances had free registeration, which was resulting in users from that instance trolling and doing low quality posts in their community (according to them). They can do this because the instance is the community.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#119

Post by skissane »

fzeroracer wrote: post #118
skissane wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instance == Community A whole instance is not necessarily a single community. People keep on defending Mastodon by comparing it to email – an email provider is not necessarily a community. If we are talking about a federated Reddit-clone (Mastodon is more a federated Twitter-clone) – the communities are the subreddits (or whatever the clone chooses to call them) not the instances.

An instance is a community, period. This is like trying to argue that subforums on a forum is not a single community. They may be smaller blocks within a larger community, but they still form a larger community as a whole and adhere to a generalized ruleset. You're the one that keeps comparing it to email, so I recommend you stop. Simple as that. Ctrl-F this thread and every response that has to do with email starts…

> You're the one that keeps comparing it to email, so I recommend you stop.

In previous discussions here about Mastodon, people have been defending it by comparing it to email.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35579181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583666 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35582762

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#120

Post by fzeroracer »

skissane wrote: post #119
fzeroracer wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An instance is a community, period. This is like trying to argue that subforums on a forum is not a single community. They may be smaller blocks within a larger community, but they still form a larger community as a whole and adhere to a generalized ruleset. You're the one that keeps comparing it to email, so I recommend you stop. Simple as that. Ctrl-F this thread and every response that has to do with email starts…

> You're the one that keeps comparing it to email, so I recommend you stop. In previous discussions here about Mastodon, people have been defending it by comparing it to email. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35579181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583666 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35582762

This is not the previous discussion, nor am I one of the previous users from a previous discussion made over two months ago. I do not care what other people have argued about and am not making their argument.
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