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How Dowries Are Fuelling a Femicide Epidemic

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Re: How Dowries Are Fuelling a Femicide Epidemic

#111

Another aspect of traditional indian family practice that relates to dowries is how a family's wealth itself flows in estate planning. When the parents die their wealth and land are inherited only by their sons (none given to daughters). The dowry in that respect, also functions as a pre-payment of a share of the family's inheritance to the bride (and her new family,) as she's moving on to a different family. In midd…

This inheritance discrimination is blatantly illegal but like many things in India the laws are fine and the justice system nonexistant.

I am not so sure about that.

In India, the eldest son is also expected to take care of their parents through their old age, and there fore inherits the family house. After watching a good dozen families take care of aging parents, I can say with confidence, that inheritance is an insufficient payment for the human cost of being a carer to your in-laws for 40+ years. I know quite a lot of family feuds that have broken up in the last decade, where the brother finds it hypocritical that the sister never contributed to taking care of the parents but showed up at their death's door for inheritance.

Remember, divorce is non-existent in India. So, any money paid to the the son-in-law or the daughter, can be considered to be going to the same joint account. Again, Dowry is terrible, and fortunately my region does not practice it. But even in cases where it does exist, the monetary exchange is surprisingly even when all the responsibilities are tallied up.

Social systems around the world develop in their own context. Taking them out of that context often leads to head scratchers and blatantly incorrect conclusion.

Re: How Dowries Are Fuelling a Femicide Epidemic

#112
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion, culture, social pressure, groupthink etc. all routinely trump basic economics in every society in the world.

True but economics can change culture. In the Netherlands women are no longer entitled to their husbands money after a divorce. This forces women to maintain an effective career or be left behind in poverty. No more "stay at home" mom's. Sometimes you have to nudge people into freedom.

Why not? The whole point of the thing is that one of the parents might prefer to sacrifice their career, for some time, to care for the kids, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO. In case of divorce why wouldn't the sacrifice count? Or another scenario, one of the partners pursues a less financially rewarding field (say arts, or music, or teaching; or part time work to spend time with kids, volunteer work, hobbies, etc.) - in that case they'd always be at a massive disadvantage, which is just ripe for abuse. Daring to file for a divorce knowing it will put you in poverty overnight takes a lot of courage and things have to be really bad. Not saying one should finance their ex-partner's lifestyle forever, of course, but this is too much.

> Sometimes you have to nudge people into freedom.

I'm not sure it's freedom to force people to work at the threat of destitution.

Re: How Dowries Are Fuelling a Femicide Epidemic

#113
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how dowries are rooted in the idea that women are property... If you were talking about bride price then it would make more sense. In many cultures the men had to pay the father of the bride, thus people in a sense were literally selling their daughters. Still there was a reason for this at the time, in those cultures, women moved to live with the husband family, and at same time their labor was important, i…

The logic behind dowries was that women were a burden since they would be relying on the husband for food, shelter and protection. They were leaving their original family, thus reducing the number of people who'd need to be fed and sheltered, while the husband's family was taking on that duty, thus they claimed to deserve compensation. Such cultures suffered from similar other ills like mistreating or kicking out wid…

I'm in India, looking to get married to someone I have known and loved for a while now. Our families are not too happy about it. Both of us are about 30. We are working professionals with decent finances and fair amount of independence, so despite them not being too happy about it, they're talking among themselves and setting up things.

This context was important given the topic, because a topic that frequently comes up in these family discussions is that

1. the girl's parents insist that if I decide to marry their daughter, they wouldn't "give us anything". This has been said a few times to my face, to my partner, and to my parents too. 2. they've asked a few times subtly if there are any "demands" from my side of the family (most likely to bring it up as another obstacle towards peaceful proceedings). 3. they've offered that they would give some small stuff like a bed, a cupboard, etc. to us as a "blessing for our married life" despite both of us politely declining for it.

It's honestly humiliating and disgusting. Both of us consider ourselves to be educated ("woke", if you will) and quite self sufficient. Not once have I or any member of my family expressed any wishes or expectations of receiving anything from the girl's side.

I've been quite against such practices for years now, from even before I met my partner. I'm even ready to the extent of disavowing my parents if they indulge in any such activity.

But what both of us have ended up realizing is that none of it matters. Society around us is accustomed to doing things in a certain way and it's not just hard, but very very hard for people to let go of such things.

And mind you - it's not just generational. I know of people from my age group, school mates, colleagues, college mates, what have you, who are totally okay with such things and consider it a "norm". Some even go to the extent of supporting their parents and upfront ask the girls for it. And it's not just males, it's all over the place. Females are mostly okay with this, if not encouraging of it. They demand stuff from their parents to "help them start a new life". Maybe don't start a new life if you and your would be partner cannot afford to do so, or come to a solid understanding with your partner on where they stand on such issue?

Re: How Dowries Are Fuelling a Femicide Epidemic

#114
post #15

Dowries are a plague on humanity. They’re rooted in the idea that women are property. I lived in India in the 1970s as a child. At that time the shorthand was “cooking accident” when new brides were killed. As in, “The bride’s father couldn’t pay the dowry. Too bad she had that unfortunate cooking accident.” The local man who did our laundry had four daughters, and it was considered a curse. He killed himself because…

Not sure how dowries are rooted in the idea that women are property... If you were talking about bride price then it would make more sense. In many cultures the men had to pay the father of the bride, thus people in a sense were literally selling their daughters. Still there was a reason for this at the time, in those cultures, women moved to live with the husband family, and at same time their labor was important, i…

By labor you mean indentured servitude?
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