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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#111

Post by andyferris »

mikenew wrote: post #69
balaji1 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitness and gaming wasn't demoed much yesterday, but are going to be insane on the Vision Pro - so I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. But how big of a deal is the M2+R1? Anyway the metaverse was already being retracted, else this Vision Pro could have hammered Meta. Clearly Occulus has to evolve to match VisionPro. Controller has to be optional. It has…

> I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Gaming can't be good, because there's no controllers. Even if the hand and eye tracking is absolutely S-tier, you're never getting something like button input from swinging your empty hands around, twitching your fingers. Just the occlusion from the back of your hand would be enough enough for that to be impossible. Fitness might be more doable, but even then I thi…

Why do you say there are no controllers? I was reading about bluetooth keyboards and interacting with a laptop, so why wouldn't a bluetooth controller be feasible (say, before launch)?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#112

Post by cubefox »

lostmsu wrote: post #104
cubefox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment. Basically, a Game Boy or Switch f…

They are immersive, 100%. But also nauseating and forehead heating.

A reviewer on YouTube said the Apple Vision is a bit heavy because they used a metal frame for some reason. (No comment about foreheads)

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#113

Post by BirAdam »

BoppreH wrote: post #51

I echo the awe at the hardware and the disappointment at the paradigm. I wish the keynote had three extra demos: - Something whimsical to inspire developers. Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile, or a task manager that shows processes as plants around me. Close apps by scrunching their screen like paper. A globe with my geotagged pictures. - A game, any game. Beat Saber was the killer app for…

It takes time for developers to get the device and begin writing software for it. As time marches on, those things that we all find value in get bought by Apple or Google and become the default apps for things. If someone then decides to try something crazy, cool. If not, someone else later will make a competing device that tries. If it wins, cool. If it doesn’t, someone will make it way later still (like Apple recreated what General Magic was working on way later).

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#114

Post by mikenew »

glhaynes wrote: post #110
mikenew wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Gaming can't be good, because there's no controllers. Even if the hand and eye tracking is absolutely S-tier, you're never getting something like button input from swinging your empty hands around, twitching your fingers. Just the occlusion from the back of your hand would be enough enough for that to be impossible. Fitness might be more doable, but even then I thi…

They talked about and briefly showed using game controllers and keyboards/pointing devices with it.

I saw a traditional gaming controller and a keyboard. Was there some kind of tracked-in-3d-space pointing device that I missed?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#115

Post by BoppreH »

mk_stjames wrote: post #107
BoppreH wrote: post #51

I echo the awe at the hardware and the disappointment at the paradigm. I wish the keynote had three extra demos: - Something whimsical to inspire developers. Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile, or a task manager that shows processes as plants around me. Close apps by scrunching their screen like paper. A globe with my geotagged pictures. - A game, any game. Beat Saber was the killer app for…

> Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile Man, people still want a file manager like fsn on IRIX systems, 30 years later...

I used Eagle Mode[1][2] for a number of years, and it was non-ironically the best file manager I've ever used. I only stopped because it required dozens of very out-of-date packages for its preview features.

But the point of whimsical demos is inspiration, like a concept car, not complete realism.

[1] https://eaglemode.sourceforge.net/ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6yPQKt3mBA

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#117

Post by prawn »

balaji1 wrote: post #58
dvt wrote: post #50

This is a bit of a rant, but I bought a Quest Pro last year, and I feel it was a total waste of money. It's actually embarrassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like. Sure, it's fun as a PCVR headset, but as a productivity tool or as a multimedia consuming device, or as a social tool, it completely misses the mark. And I'd say that 80% of its failure can be attributed to bad software. It's buggy,…

Fitness and gaming wasn't demoed much yesterday, but are going to be insane on the Vision Pro - so I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. But how big of a deal is the M2+R1? Anyway the metaverse was already being retracted, else this Vision Pro could have hammered Meta. Clearly Occulus has to evolve to match VisionPro. Controller has to be optional. It has…

Could be that they're leaving it (and gaming/etc) for developers. They largely showed core stuff only at this point.

The platform launch was very locked down. For incremental hardware upgrades, they put hardware in the hands of devs by either shipping out early or bringing devs to their offices to work on prototypes in a secure environment.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#118

Post by mikenew »

andyferris wrote: post #111
mikenew wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Gaming can't be good, because there's no controllers. Even if the hand and eye tracking is absolutely S-tier, you're never getting something like button input from swinging your empty hands around, twitching your fingers. Just the occlusion from the back of your hand would be enough enough for that to be impossible. Fitness might be more doable, but even then I thi…

Why do you say there are no controllers? I was reading about bluetooth keyboards and interacting with a laptop, so why wouldn't a bluetooth controller be feasible (say, before launch)?

I mean it's not impossible, but Apple would have to design and manufacture one. If they're planning on it it's weird that they wouldn't mention it.

VR controllers aren't simple the way a game pad is. They need a full tracking solution, which means sensors with base stations, cameras with some form of vision based tracking, or the headset needs to be able to track them based on some reference points (infrared lights or something). And that tracking needs to be fast, precise, and correctly positioned relative to the headset.

Using the Index controllers with the Lighthouse base stations is kinda plausible from a technical standpoint, but that would mean Apple would need to allow the headset to work with SteamVR, and that seems very unlikely at this point.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#119

Post by vlovich123 »

lostmsu wrote: post #104
cubefox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment. Basically, a Game Boy or Switch f…

They are immersive, 100%. But also nauseating and forehead heating.

Have you tried a Quest? I found the SW on that fixed all neaseau I experienced on earlier headsets and I think the Quest 2 was even better but I don’t recall at this point.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#120

Post by Aeolun »

mikenew wrote: post #69
balaji1 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitness and gaming wasn't demoed much yesterday, but are going to be insane on the Vision Pro - so I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. But how big of a deal is the M2+R1? Anyway the metaverse was already being retracted, else this Vision Pro could have hammered Meta. Clearly Occulus has to evolve to match VisionPro. Controller has to be optional. It has…

> I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Gaming can't be good, because there's no controllers. Even if the hand and eye tracking is absolutely S-tier, you're never getting something like button input from swinging your empty hands around, twitching your fingers. Just the occlusion from the back of your hand would be enough enough for that to be impossible. Fitness might be more doable, but even then I thi…

Gaming is pretty good with a keyboard and mouse. No controller necessary.
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