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The myth of the eight-hour sleep

bbc.co.uk

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Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#111

Post by mmwako »

lobotryas wrote: post #92
mmwako wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insight. As a matter of fact, I do meditate :) From my experience (nothing scientific), to replicate these states, what you need is to shut down your rational mind. You see, everyone has in there mind a small voice going "hey, I like this lamp" or "mmm I forgot to do something". This voice is your rational, conscious part of your "self". However, it's not your entire "self". Meditation aims at quieting…

That sounds pretty interesting. Any suggestion on books or ofher resources for peope new to meditation? How did you get started with meditation?

I'm far from being an expert, but I learned this type of meditation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation from a guy my mother hired to teach all my family. There are many different meditations and practices, and I've actually never read a book about just meditation but I recommend books by Osho and Deepak Chopra (just google'em) to have insight on Indian practices and philosophy. I would recommend to reach out any yoga institution around town and ask. It's better to learn from someone than from a book, and, as cliché as it sounds, if you are looking for it, the appropriate practice will come to you.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#112

Post by nostrademons »

jfoldi wrote: post #94
VonLipwig wrote: post #42

I am really into 'do what works for you'. You may find that that sleeping in two 4 hour blocks changes your life. You feel alive! Alternatively you may find yourself more tired. Personally I like sleeping 8-9 hours a night. I find myself fairly alert a few minutes after I wake up and I can start my day. It certainly doesn't feel 'unnatural' to me. I am also a big fan of sleeping when other people sleep so I can enjoy…

You don't feel like you over slept after 9 hours of sleep? Either way I have to agree with doing what works for you. I always made an attempt to sleep a full 8 hours and failed. I get by on 4-5 hours of sleep a night and feel fine!

I find my acceptable waking points occur in 1.5 hour sleep cycles, and how many I need depends on how mentally taxing the stuff I'm working on is. For ordinary work, stuff I know how to do fairly well already, I need 8 hours. If I'm learning something new or putting in long hours that require concentration, I'll need 9.5 hours. If I'm thrown into a completely new situation - say, I need to decide the architecture of my startup and learn 3-4 new frameworks all at once, or I've just moved cross-country and started a new job - I'll need 11 hours. I can also function on 6.5 hours but feel pretty crummy, and there's a noticeable performance penalty for anything that requires concentration (math, computer programming, etc). On 4 hours of sleep, I'm a zombie - I do okay with everyday tasks and social interaction (with people I know), but can't really learn anything new and retain it. Curiously, I feel better on 4 hours of sleep than on 6.5, 9.5, or 11 - I'm more alive and less groggy, I just notice that my performance on external measures declines.

I recall in the 2010 there were a bunch of athletes that all said the secret to their success - besides training hard - was getting 9 hours of sleep at night. IIRC both Sasha Cohen and Shaun White mentioned it.

I think I'd also read brain research that REM sleep (which tends to be back-loaded towards the end of the night) is when your brain converts experiences from that day from short-term memory into long-term skillsets. That'd be consistent with my experience that more mentally demanding tasks require more sleep, and the experience of those Olympic athletes, and that I don't really suffer a short-term penalty from lack of sleep, it's more a long-term problem.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#113

Post by cop359 »

mmwako wrote: post #2

Oh my God. This could change my life. One lifelong problem I've got is sleeping. I have great trouble falling asleep, and my sleeping patterns are very uncommon: some days I sleep 12 hours, some 5, but I'm usually very tired because of this. However, I used to think I had a "gift" of being really creative and having my best ideas just before sleep, just waking up, and during insomnia episodes. However, I've discovere…

"I had a "gift" of being really creative and having my best ideas just before sleep, just waking up, and during insomnia episodes."

This is called Hypnogogia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnogogia

The only way I can definitely replicate it is to stay up all night. The next day I will feel a lot more creative, but at the same time a lot less coordinated, frequently tired and not able to concentrate on doing something complicated. Also it's super easy to forget things, so you need to write down all your ideas.

I dunno if you often for instance stay up very very late with friends talking about things, but I think there is a similar effect at some point.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#114

Post by pjscott »

hencq wrote: post #49
JeremyBanks wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how your post could be "also" to the parent post: It's saying to be skeptical of the claims due to lack of evidence, while your post contrarily implies that this is already established knowledge.

I think he's saying that the conclusion from the historical study (people used to have bi-modal sleep patterns) isn't exactly revolutionary either. So it's in line with the parent post in that there's not really anything noteworthy in the article.

Lots of things are noteworthy for people who don't already know them.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#115

Post by ericmoritz »

I am going to try for a week or two. Having nearly 12 hours dedicated to work, I only have 4 exhausted hours in the evenings for eating dinner, spending time with my wife, kids and myself.

If my wife and I split our sleep cycle into two 4 hour periods we can better spend my four hours of free time.

The waking period between my commute and first sleep could be spend eating dinner, playing with the kids, and exercise. After my first sleep I can spend time with my wife, and study with a rested mind. Theoretically it seems like a good idea. We'll see how I cope after a week or two of trying.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#116

Post by Natsu »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #27
mmwako wrote: post #2

Oh my God. This could change my life. One lifelong problem I've got is sleeping. I have great trouble falling asleep, and my sleeping patterns are very uncommon: some days I sleep 12 hours, some 5, but I'm usually very tired because of this. However, I used to think I had a "gift" of being really creative and having my best ideas just before sleep, just waking up, and during insomnia episodes. However, I've discovere…

You're definitely not alone. Extraordinary insight and creativity, rich, vivid, inspired and out-of-the-box thinking, are typical for "twilight" states, when you're floating between waking state and sleep; not fully awaken to the outside world, but not fully unconscious either. The only problem is replicating and maintaining these states. It is sometimes possible to remain fully aware in what is essentially a full-on…

I sometimes get there by being sleep-deprived. It's pretty hard to get there, though. Sometimes you just fall asleep. And even if you feel creative, you might not have the energy to actually get anything done.

Also, dreams tend to fade rapidly. If you plan to use them to get ideas, it's best to write the ideas down immediately, before the ideas evaporate.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#117

Post by prodigal_erik »

wisty wrote: post #50

Isn't this the proverbial midnight? You went to sleep for about four hours, then woke to have a midnight snack.

Makes me wonder whether we're now (mostly) sleeping through midnight because eating more carbs acclimates us to extremes of blood sugar and insulin levels, letting the midnight food craving pass unnoticed.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#118

Post by surfmike »

chollida1 wrote: post #107
kahawe wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about whatever contemporarily popular science apps and websites like http://sleepyti.me/ are buying into.

Ah, in that case I don't know, but I will ask. Their latest research indicates that a full sleep cycle lasts approximately 4 hours, which does fly in the face of the older sleep data. it's entirely possible that their hypothesis will turn out to be incorrect.

That's really interesting, do they have that published anywhere?

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#119

Post by sliverstorm »

jfoldi wrote: post #94
VonLipwig wrote: post #42

I am really into 'do what works for you'. You may find that that sleeping in two 4 hour blocks changes your life. You feel alive! Alternatively you may find yourself more tired. Personally I like sleeping 8-9 hours a night. I find myself fairly alert a few minutes after I wake up and I can start my day. It certainly doesn't feel 'unnatural' to me. I am also a big fan of sleeping when other people sleep so I can enjoy…

You don't feel like you over slept after 9 hours of sleep? Either way I have to agree with doing what works for you. I always made an attempt to sleep a full 8 hours and failed. I get by on 4-5 hours of sleep a night and feel fine!

What works for you isn't necessarily what works for someone else. 4-5 hours a night turns me into a zombie after about two days. My optimal duration seems to be about 8.5 hours, up to 9 hours if I heavily exerted myself the previous day.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#120

Post by swah »

nostrademons wrote: post #112
jfoldi wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't feel like you over slept after 9 hours of sleep? Either way I have to agree with doing what works for you. I always made an attempt to sleep a full 8 hours and failed. I get by on 4-5 hours of sleep a night and feel fine!

I find my acceptable waking points occur in 1.5 hour sleep cycles, and how many I need depends on how mentally taxing the stuff I'm working on is. For ordinary work, stuff I know how to do fairly well already, I need 8 hours. If I'm learning something new or putting in long hours that require concentration, I'll need 9.5 hours. If I'm thrown into a completely new situation - say, I need to decide the architecture of…

But how do you do this? You wake up and go to sleep again and again? I wake up naturally after 7 or 8 hours, would be kinda hard for me to sleep 11.5 hours.
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