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‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#111

Post by karaterobot »

munificent wrote: post #102
karaterobot wrote: post #47

I know three different people who sold their homes, moved into sailboats, and set out to be waterborne digital nomads, sailing around the world and doing freelance work to support themselves. I know one guy who did the same thing, but with #vanlife. In all these cases, without exception, they regretted it within a year. My advice is, before you liquidate your assets, quit your job, upend your life... give it a dry ru…

> In all these cases, without exception, they regretted it within a year. Did they regret that they did it at all , or did they want to stop because they realized they would regret it they kept doing it? Have you talked to them after they've gone back to a stable life for a while to see if they still regret it? I can definitely see it being a bad idea overall. But I can also imagine someone realizing "This isn't as g…

Yeah, I think they probably have mixed feelings about it, good and bad. But it's safe to say it did not work out the way they hoped it would.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#112

Post by ilyt »

witchesindublin wrote: post #46
tayo42 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i spent a month in bali after covid, and the ones i talked to were happy to have tourists back. i heard miserable stories from selling everything, going back to farming to survive, personal businesses gone, pets dying because they couldn't take care of them. You cant make generalizations about what people want and don't want. its more complex then that.

South East Asia has been against long term tourists for many years now. They want all the "families" and richer tourists who stay for a few days in expensive hotels that hire lots of local workers.

Well, it's no wonder, all the taxes the nomads pay are not paid to them...

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#113

Post by ilyt »

witchesindublin wrote: post #30
tayo42 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

every city has this same complaint about prices. at some point maybe we need to finally stop demonizing the bad group of the moment and look what is really causing problems

In Europe and much of Asia, there is usually a core area that is very historic and very exclusive/desirable to live in, and of course by virtue it's hard to expand a historic area. These areas have been turned into a mixture of tourist areas and digital nomad areas, usually for Americans due to the strong dollar, and out-priced all the locals to the point that these areas have no life or character. I read complaints…

Tourist traps happened organically for locals before the digital nomads came. As did tourism

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#114

Post by em-bee »

beerpls wrote: post #56

Unlike others, i’m going to say I get it. I had a stranger recently come up to me and ask to come to an event I was inviting others to. No problem! Come along But the thing is the dude was very shy and awkward. Which isn’t a problem, but definitely cast a bit of a cloud over our social event All of a sudden I was managing him, taking time and focus out of my night to make him feel welcome. I’m sure he didn’t intend i…

what kind of event was that? tech or something else?

Which is all well and good - it’s let of meeting people… but this guy was just blowing through town. All the investment for what? So he could be 1,000 miles away next week? (he said he would be)

that made me think of this song: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heute_hier,_morgen_dort

be a badass people want to be around

i am probably just like most average introverts, but i don't have problems at tech events, it really depends though. today i was at a meetup of people building brick models (LEGO and alternatives), a hobby i share on the sides. it was way more difficult for me to join that group because i don't have the experience and background as most others, and if it wasn't for people i had already known online, i probably would have acted like your friend there.

on tech events on the other hand i can contribute with my experience, all you need to do is to get me to start talking. likewise any community that is curious about visitors, like my religious community which is always welcoming stories from other countries, which meant i was welcome everywhere i went.

other groups are those where it is possible to integrate without a long history. irish folk sessions. show up with an instrument and play. instant integration. dungeons and dragons. i found a group that would run weekly one-off's. while multiple sessions followed an overall storyline, each session was designed so that it didn't matter who and how many players joined. the DM was ready for anything, the only rule was that all players were at level 5 and had the same number of points to create their characters, so they were all of similar strength. instant integration. board game meetups were even more open. every week i'd see different people. again, easy to integrate.

it does help to have a variety of interests. irish folk sessions were sparse outside of western countries (only in big cities with lots of expats), board games and dnd too. tech events are a lot easier.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#115

Post by ilyt »

witchesindublin wrote: post #101
rr808 wrote: post #62

One of the problems of digital nomads that come to my town is that they're introverted quiet people that would rather be on HN or reddit than be part of the community. Actually they'll never be part of the community as by definition they'll be off in a few months.

Reading some of the comments here, I think too many people (notably quite a few Americans) don't quite understand how severe cultural and philosophical differences between countries and cultures can be. It can very even between two people of the same race but different countries (say British Indian and Indian American). People in a certain country can have completely different ideas about what racism offends them com…

>People in a certain country can have completely different ideas about what racism offends them compared to the same racial minority in another country.

So can different people in same country...

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#116

Post by ilyt »

fallingfrog wrote: post #42

It feels like this kind of lifestyle would combine all the stress and homesickness of being a touring musician, but without the adoring fans and parties.

It sounds like something fun to do for few month and come back.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#117

Post by WorldMaker »

harlanji wrote: post #59
balls187 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're painting with very broad strokes. I would say perhaps Europeans as a whole have much more experience living in a foreign country than Americans do. But as an American with significant travel experience globally, I have yet to visit a country that is as culturally diverse as America.

You're right. 'America' as people talk about it often means coastal US metros... definitely nothing to do with 'flyover' areas smaller than Chicago. I'm surprised by pockets of the city I grew up in when I walk a few blocks off the roads I've driven 100s of times. Latin/Somali/Vietnamese/you-name-it neighborhoods I had no idea existed. Sqaure-mile or two neighborhoods within a 1-200sqmi metro, not too surprising.

The "flyover" areas have a lot more diversity than they are given credit for, including many of the cities smaller than Chicago. I don't think there is a US city of any size without pockets of interesting diversity. (Certainly none in my experience though I will admit to generally limited exposure to the Plains states and some "Midwest" bias.) Plus there are all sorts of large "contiguous statistical area" regions in "flyover" land that correspond to multiple "small" cities but overall have the same diversity/pockets/feel-ish of coastal CSAs. Chicago seems an interestingly over-large cut-off point to me for "diverse city" and may show some bias of inexperience in "flyover" areas.

There's definitely a startling lack of diversity in many of the US' truly rural areas, which is why the current US culture war seems dominantly city versus rural. But there are also fewer truly rural areas than people expect. (The US love of suburban and exurban expansion touched a lot of the country.)

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#118

Post by [deleted] »

em-bee wrote: post #103
witchesindublin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You represent what the problem with Americans tend to be. You assume that your culture and philosophy is the best, and then start to hate how all the locals hate you and blame it on their culture. Southern Europe and much of Asia has had inter-ethnic/inter-racial immigration for thousands of years and have developed their own ways of how ethnic groups live side by side and integrate/merge together.

parent comment didn't say that it's the best, but it's obviously the easiest for the modern digital nomad. in most other places integration probably happened over timespans of several centuries. check the history of germans outside of germany. they lived in places for centuries and never integrated at all, but kept to themselves, except in the US. in asia today foreigners are not expected to integrate at all. nor in…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#119

Post by arp242 »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #45
witchesindublin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are problems with tensions between locals and digital nomads in several places, especially Portugal, but also in a lot of major cities where they are having a similar effect to Airbnb. A big issue is the strength of the US dollar simply makes it impossible for anyone else to compete and attracts so many Americans.

> There are problems with tensions between locals and digital nomads in several places, especially Portugal I have never heard of this before, and I have a few portuguese friends. Also, in the context of Lisbon, I doubt that 16,000 salaried workers [0] could influence the market to that extent in a city of 500,000 people, especially given that digital nomads make, on average, $120,000 [1]. It seems to me that digital…

> especially given that digital nomads make, on average, $120,000

Minimum wage in Portugal is about €760/month, or $10,000/year. You're seriously underestimating how much $120k is.

Re: ‘Tired’, ‘lonely’ and hated by locals: the reality for the digital nomad

#120

Post by arp242 »

tayo42 wrote: post #39
hef19898 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A whole of locals, from Lissabon to Bali, actually might disagree. Not to talk about the defacto visa and tax fraud some digital nomads commit. Nothing wrong with going to live and work in a certain place. But do it the proper way: get a work visa if you have to and register for taxes like everyone else. Otherwise your taxes not paid are an unfair advantage compared to locals, it is illegal and basically cheating.

i spent a month in bali after covid, and the ones i talked to were happy to have tourists back. i heard miserable stories from selling everything, going back to farming to survive, personal businesses gone, pets dying because they couldn't take care of them. You cant make generalizations about what people want and don't want. its more complex then that.

I was in Bali during COVID, got there a Oct 2019 and stayed for two years in total. The reasons for this are very much economical: COVID was pretty brutal for a lot of people who make their living off tourism, as you mentioned.

For many locals it's very much a love-hate relationship. They love the money it brings in and hate pretty much everything else. As soon as you complain about anything – no matter how justified – there's a very real chance you'll be told to fuck off to your own country.

And to be honest I don't blame them either. There really are a whole bunch of right twats in Bali and even I got pretty tired of it quickly. For example the number of white people not wearing a mask in stores etc. was just staggering.

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