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Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

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Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#111

Post by dylan604 »

inopinatus wrote: post #103
dylan604 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you can't do that, what exactly is your job as a lawyer? to convince some (judge/jury) that your client is the one to win the trial. ethics are meant to be the definer of how far to go in that cause with licensing boards being the ultimate decider if you've crossed the line and are allowed to continue in the legal practice.

Grinding against the safety rails on a mountain hairpin is not indicative of a competent driver.

no, but that driver might just be that much more successful if they get away with it. in fact, while not a mountain hairpin as your example, there was a recent race car driver that did a similar thing by intentionally using the wall as a push back to allow a maneuver that allowed for success.

so a clever comment attempting to prove a point is not always indicative of a proven point ;-)

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#112

Post by [deleted] »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #106
cj wrote: post #19

I asked ChatGPT to tell me a riddle. It was “What is always hungry, needs to be fed, and makes your hands red?” (Or something like that) I asked for a hint about 5 times and it kept giving more legitimate sounding hints. Finally I gave up and asked for the answer to the riddle, and it spit out a random fruit which made no sense as the answer to the riddle. I then repeated the riddle and asked ChatGPT what the answer…

I need to know what version of ChatGPT you were using, because this is a critical piece of information that everyone just blatantly ignores, and I can only imagine that it's out of ignorance of the significance of the difference. This is what happened when I asked ChatGPT 4... ME Give me hints without outright telling me the answer to the riddle: "What is always hungry, needs to be fed, and makes your hands red?" Cha…

[deleted]

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#113

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

selcuka wrote: post #110
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to know what version of ChatGPT you were using, because this is a critical piece of information that everyone just blatantly ignores, and I can only imagine that it's out of ignorance of the significance of the difference. This is what happened when I asked ChatGPT 4... ME Give me hints without outright telling me the answer to the riddle: "What is always hungry, needs to be fed, and makes your hands red?" Cha…

I guess the point is GPT-4 hallucinates, too. Maybe it did well for this example but still a lawyer should not trust its output.

Maybe, but it's surprisingly good in the face of all the non-version-indicating complaints about how terrible people think it is. Mostly I doubt that the lawyer was using GPT4, because the lawyer sounds like the kind of person who would be ignorant of the significance of the difference.

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#114

Post by sn0wf1re »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #106
cj wrote: post #19

I asked ChatGPT to tell me a riddle. It was “What is always hungry, needs to be fed, and makes your hands red?” (Or something like that) I asked for a hint about 5 times and it kept giving more legitimate sounding hints. Finally I gave up and asked for the answer to the riddle, and it spit out a random fruit which made no sense as the answer to the riddle. I then repeated the riddle and asked ChatGPT what the answer…

I need to know what version of ChatGPT you were using, because this is a critical piece of information that everyone just blatantly ignores, and I can only imagine that it's out of ignorance of the significance of the difference. This is what happened when I asked ChatGPT 4... ME Give me hints without outright telling me the answer to the riddle: "What is always hungry, needs to be fed, and makes your hands red?" Cha…

That's GPT-4, not ChatGPT (3.5-turbo I think).

Also, yes you can get correct information by tailoring your prompts, but that isn't the issue. The issue is that some prompts lead to bad results and confusing/incorrect answers. You changed what OP queried by providing the riddle and asking for hints to that riddle, whereas OP asked for a random riddle and then hints to that riddle.

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#115

Post by josu »

StrangeATractor wrote: post #88
hluska wrote: post #46

For reference, here is the judge’s order. Endnote #2 alone is worth the price of admission: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23826753/judgeaskingt...

That guy has some work to do on his resume.

He'll just outsource it to chatGPT.

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#116

Post by drc500free »

lamontcg wrote: post #99
lynx23 wrote: post #24

Wait, this is handled as "ChatGPT made up these cases" and not as "Layers deliberately used ChatGPT to fabricate stuff"? Is anyone really believing a lawyer is that stupid? I know, adssume good intentions and all, but in this case, really?

> Is anyone really believing a lawyer is that stupid? There's over a million lawyers in the United States. You'd expect at least one of them to be a 1-in-a-million level of bad, or 4.7 standard deviations below the mean assuming a Gaussian distribution of competency. An average person would normally never come across that lawyer in their lifetime, but media will find that lawyer and amplify their mistakes to everyone…

Is there a term for this "winning the lottery jackpot is unbelievably unlikely, but every week we hear about someone winning it" effect? People get it when the media reports on the lottery, but somehow miss the amplifying effect on pretty much any other topic.

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#117

Post by Ankaios »

It turns out there were precedents:

Case: Thompson v. Horizon Insurance Company, Filing: Plaintiff's Motion for Class Certification. Citation: The plaintiff's attorney cites the influential case of Johnson v. Horizon Insurance Company, 836 F.2d 123 (9th Cir. 1994), which established the standards for certifying class actions in insurance disputes. However, it has recently come to light that Johnson v. Horizon Insurance Company is a fabricated case that does not exist in legal records.

Case: Rodriguez v. Metro City Hospital, Filing: Defendant's Motion to Exclude Expert Testimony. Citation: The defense counsel references the landmark case of Sanchez v. Metro City Hospital, 521 U.S. 987 (2001), which set the criteria for admitting expert witness testimony in medical malpractice cases. However, it has now been discovered that Sanchez v. Metro City Hospital is a fictitious case and does not form part of legal precedent.

Case: Barnes v. National Pharmaceuticals Inc., Filing: Plaintiff's Response to Defendant's Motion for Summary Judgment. Citation: The plaintiff's lawyer cites the well-known case of Anderson v. National Pharmaceuticals Inc., 550 F.3d 789 (2d Cir. 2010), which recognized the duty of pharmaceutical companies to provide adequate warnings for potential side effects. However, further investigation has revealed that Anderson v. National Pharmaceuticals Inc. is a fabricated case and does not exist in legal jurisprudence.

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#118

Post by seba_dos1 »

cj wrote: post #19

I asked ChatGPT to tell me a riddle. It was “What is always hungry, needs to be fed, and makes your hands red?” (Or something like that) I asked for a hint about 5 times and it kept giving more legitimate sounding hints. Finally I gave up and asked for the answer to the riddle, and it spit out a random fruit which made no sense as the answer to the riddle. I then repeated the riddle and asked ChatGPT what the answer…

GPT does nothing but predict the next word (token, to be more exact). If you ask it for hints, it's going to come up with some hints that sound like they could be plausible in context of the original riddle. If you then ask it what the answer was, it's going to try to take all the earlier hints into account, because that's now the text it's trying to complete.

There's no entity sitting on the other side of the screen thinking about riddle's solution from the start. There's just a model that completes the given text one token at a time. You should expect similar results as if it was bunch of people passing a single piece of paper to each other, each writing a single word on it, not communicating with each other in any other way and trying their best to come up with coherent result. It's not going to make sense all the time.

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#119

Post by runsWphotons »

macjohnmcc wrote: post #98
cj wrote: post #19

I asked ChatGPT to tell me a riddle. It was “What is always hungry, needs to be fed, and makes your hands red?” (Or something like that) I asked for a hint about 5 times and it kept giving more legitimate sounding hints. Finally I gave up and asked for the answer to the riddle, and it spit out a random fruit which made no sense as the answer to the riddle. I then repeated the riddle and asked ChatGPT what the answer…

I have asked it to write code. The code looked reasonable but did not work (using a non-existent API or library). I said the library XXX doesn't exist. And it would respond with an apology and a new solution that maybe worked maybe didn't. Sometimes it could pull off a save eventually.

i keep getting it to write code that works but then its example usage makes no sense. i point out the code is write but the example it gives is wrong and it can almost never fix it. version 4.

Re: Lawyer cited 6 fake cases made up by ChatGPT; judge calls it “unprecedented”

#120

Post by jiggawatts »

cj wrote: post #19

I asked ChatGPT to tell me a riddle. It was “What is always hungry, needs to be fed, and makes your hands red?” (Or something like that) I asked for a hint about 5 times and it kept giving more legitimate sounding hints. Finally I gave up and asked for the answer to the riddle, and it spit out a random fruit which made no sense as the answer to the riddle. I then repeated the riddle and asked ChatGPT what the answer…

ChatGPT 3.5 or GPT 4?

Almost every negative comment about LLMs is by someone using an older, weaker model and making generalisations.

Here’s GPT 4 giving me a riddle: https://chat.openai.com/share/1753ce5a-d44d-44ac-bc97-599a26...

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