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Ableton Push 3

ableton.com

111–120 of 307 posts

Re: Ableton Push 3

#111
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musician here, most of us (the ones that aren't also programmers) just have to pay up the arse every time for every thing. I've been teaching myself keys the last few years and had been planning to one day get myself a big $6k stage keyboard, when I felt that I had sufficiently developed to warrant it. I have since tried out Zynthian, and my conclusion was that with a pianoteq license and a good controller, I can hav…

> domination of music is one of the pillars of Mac's success. If they're not just neglecting that, but actively screwing with people... They've lost the plot. They’ve lost many plots. Musicians, developers, and even photographers. Apple’s playbook seems to have changed to: - Hook a demographic with functionality that’s anywhere from just good enough to excellent - Railroad them in to using as many first-part services…

Google famously discontinued Google Reader despite it having tens of millions of users because it represented a minuscule contribution to their bottom line.

Apple isn't a software company, it's a phone company. Everything that isn't an iPhone represents a minuscule contribution to their bottom line. Apple doesn't give a shit about pro users, even if it's profitable, because they're too big to care.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#112
post #2

Been making electronic music for well over a decade, but always in the classic DAW arrangement view, at most using MIDI keyboards in terms of haptic input devices but relying on mouse and keyboard 95% of the time. I look at devices like Push or Maschine and my immediate thought is how tedious it seems to get anything done with them. I find the different approaches to manifesting musical ideas endlessly fascinating.

Do you have any thoughts on the ROLI?

Re: Ableton Push 3

#113
post #80
post #45

Personally, I don't really like the Push platform, having previously owned a Push 2. I can understand the value of it if you're performing live, however the hard reality is that it's a really inefficient way to create electronic music. The mouse and keyboard are simply a lot faster to use. With that said, maybe that's for you. But if you're trying to make advanced productions as quickly as possible, then I really see…

A keyboard and a mouse might be faster in some instances, but they are also far less musically expressive. When it comes to putting emotion into music, I think it is a lot easier to do so with an expressive, physically embodied musical instrument. In terms of speed, I'm also not sure how quickly you can create articulations like vibrato and slides with a mouse and keyboard, but that seems like it would be fairly tedi…

When it comes to putting emotion into music, I think it is a lot easier to do so with an expressive, physically embodied musical instrument.

This is exactly my experience. I started with mouse/keyboard only fiddling with electronic music (no music background whatsoever) and the day I bought a basic MIDI controller I ended up playing it until it was time to go to work the next morning.. It was such an overwhelming experience, not just the keys themselves but also the buttons and the trackpad. Finally I could just do all these tiny variations which make groove on the spot, immediately, in infinite variations, instead of going back and forth dragging things with a mouse in only one dimension.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And I'm a programmer - don't want to imagine the pains that musicians have to go through. Anyone doing it professionally will check all of their plugins/hardware has support for the latest macOS version before updating.

I can promise you there are many, many professional musicians who will be first in line to upgrade their Mac. I’m a professional programmer it’s not like I test if my mouse or keyboard will work with a new windows update.

Pro Tools has been broken on virtually every major version release of MacOS as far as I can remember, I don't think pros are the ones eager to upgrade their OS. They do it begrudgingly as late as possible.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#115
post #103
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musician here, most of us (the ones that aren't also programmers) just have to pay up the arse every time for every thing. I've been teaching myself keys the last few years and had been planning to one day get myself a big $6k stage keyboard, when I felt that I had sufficiently developed to warrant it. I have since tried out Zynthian, and my conclusion was that with a pianoteq license and a good controller, I can hav…

offtopic, but what keyboard controller do you recommend? I have a cheap MIDI keyboard but the keyfeel is all wrong compared to the upright pianos I used to play as a kid. I'd like to get back into piano, and I know I struggled with phrasing/dynamics, and I worry that unweighted keys will teach me bad habits even though they're technically velocity sensitive...

Most MIDI keyboards aren't really made for piano performance or even really for piano practice. If you want a MIDI controller for this reason, I'd recommend going to a music store near you (if applicable) and playing a few and feeling the keys and go with the one that feels nicest for your budget.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#116
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not requesting you do anything, I'm not even a customer (as far as I know), I'm saying what I would do in your position if I was aiming to support an audio product on Linux. I explained why I would choose Fedora. It's your business, you run it as you see fit. I can't help but feel that maybe you read too much into what you get sent. I would pick one "known good config" ( your distro of choice), present it as what…

I'm glad you have good ideas about how to run a business like this. But I think your post illustrates the idea that, unlike windows or mac users, us Linux users have opinions about how the business should be run, and we tend to voice them through support channels and emails and social media etc. Every time we voice our ideas, it generates a ticket or a discussion or a decision that they have to deal with. The act of…

> us Linux users have opinions about how the business should be run

I have plenty of public and private opinions about software that aren't Linux-centric too, and you're assuming that I only use Linux, when no, a good chunk of my workflow is on Windows because that's where the software and driver support is for cutting-edge DSP and video game middleware. Some companies even pay for consulting. Businesses that rely on selling licenses to customers for new features heavily rely on feedback.

You only have to look at the likes of the Native Instruments forum or their Centercode to see that providing feedback isn't some kind of Linux-exclusive phenomena, and most reasonable businesses encourage that feedback. However, triaging and actioning that feedback is an entirely separate matter.

> it generates a ticket or a discussion or a decision that they have to deal with

They don't need to do anything. That's entirely a business decision whether or not a company acts on user feedback, or feedback from potential customers. A lot of biz pay handsomely to run focus groups and and actually get feedback whatsoever, but there's a big difference between a social media discussion, a feature request, a bug report, or a support request.

Who is seeking support for an audio product via Slashdot? Nobody. It's an audio product on Linux. You go where the devs are, where you'll get help, if they're indeed offering it.

If somebody buys a license for x on Linux, you ask them what OS they use on the contact form in a dropdown or text field on a webpage, you use conditional logic where if it isn't the supported OS, you tell them "sorry, this isn't a supported configuration, if you would like support, please use the recommended/supported distro, here's a link for more info". This eliminates almost all cases of this. Prior to selling them a license, you have them tick a box that acknowledges that Linux support is limited and that unless they use x, they're SOL on getting support unless they go to the forum or elsewhere and figure it out either on their own, or with others.

> The intersection of these decisions is very small.

Then those customers or potential customers make a decision as to whether it is appropriate for them, if they are willing to compromise by changing x, or if Linux as a whole is appropriate for them in the same way that people who want to use Logic Pro will need to buy a Mac, and that might mean that some plugins aren't available on macOS, or aren't yet natively supporting Apple Silicon, and if you want to exclusively use Windows then you aren't going to be using MetaSynth.

Renoise users on Linux seem to be able to navigate this without problem in terms of understanding `glibc >= 2.27 (e.g. Ubuntu 18) on x86_64 based systems`. Same goes for Bitwig Studio users understanding Flatpak and PipeWire support.

If people want to have their cake and eat it, they use Windows or macOS. Linux users are accustomed to compromise, it goes with the territory.

> That's what they're already doing though

And he dismissed my response as being an example of the problem when that wasn't what I was saying whatsoever, thus was not an example of his problem, and now you're latching onto that like I didn't already understand this.

Furthermore, this entire discussion ignores the potential for a return by supporting an influential power user on a niche OS. It may actually bring significant sales of something in. That's strategy.

E.g., DaVinci Resolve may not have the majority of its userbase on Linux, but because x major director or studio uses DaVinci Resolve on Linux on y film, they will sell a lot of software and hardware to z users on other operating systems. Audio has some of the most influenced people niche-wise because they want to use what their hero uses, hence signature versions of guitars, hence signature guitar pedals, hence VST collabs, and preset and sample packs from x producer.

tl;dr: it's a misconstrued and misrepresented throwaway comment that of course turned into an irrelevant tangent because it's HN. On an interesting thread for an interesting product launch, and this is what people focus on? Exhausting.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#117
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> domination of music is one of the pillars of Mac's success. If they're not just neglecting that, but actively screwing with people... They've lost the plot. They’ve lost many plots. Musicians, developers, and even photographers. Apple’s playbook seems to have changed to: - Hook a demographic with functionality that’s anywhere from just good enough to excellent - Railroad them in to using as many first-part services…

Google famously discontinued Google Reader despite it having tens of millions of users because it represented a minuscule contribution to their bottom line. Apple isn't a software company, it's a phone company. Everything that isn't an iPhone represents a minuscule contribution to their bottom line. Apple doesn't give a shit about pro users, even if it's profitable, because they're too big to care.

I was questioning your “Apple’s a phone company” claim, figuring services long ago surpassed iPhone sales, but in fact, services sits at about 30% of their revenue and the iPhone sits at about 55%, which is roughly 5% growth from last year!

Re: Ableton Push 3

#118
post #36
post #21

I own a Push 1 and 2, although at hobbyist level. The standalone Push 3 seems a great step forward. macOS has increasingly become user-hostile when it comes to audio (and other pro) users. For instance I have an expensive sound card that became useless with after a minor OS upgrade. I never got to troubleshoot it or find an official solution. That was incredibly discouraging - enough to move on to other hobbies. And…

Musician here, most of us (the ones that aren't also programmers) just have to pay up the arse every time for every thing. I've been teaching myself keys the last few years and had been planning to one day get myself a big $6k stage keyboard, when I felt that I had sufficiently developed to warrant it. I have since tried out Zynthian, and my conclusion was that with a pianoteq license and a good controller, I can hav…

My Pod Studio UX 2 interface works on a M1 Ventura but most of the Line 6 software that I used (Pod Farm with multiple sound packs) doesn't works any more. I've to but Pod Farm 2.5. The software for loading patches to my Pod XT Live doesn't work either.

It's an old Software that runs on... Windows 10...

Re: Ableton Push 3

#119
post #106
post #13

Very steep prices. Can buy a decent MacBook Air for the cost of the standalone version. Would have been nice to see them keep the old model around with a reduced price for people less well off.

The price is quite reasonable. You shouldn't compare it to a MacBook Air but to other stand alone boxes with built in controllers like the Akai MPC X which is €2400, the Akai Force, which is quite Ableton-like and which costs €1200. It also comes with an MPE controller and those are not cheap.

Don't you mean "it is an MPE controller"?

Re: Ableton Push 3

#120
post #115
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

offtopic, but what keyboard controller do you recommend? I have a cheap MIDI keyboard but the keyfeel is all wrong compared to the upright pianos I used to play as a kid. I'd like to get back into piano, and I know I struggled with phrasing/dynamics, and I worry that unweighted keys will teach me bad habits even though they're technically velocity sensitive...

Most MIDI keyboards aren't really made for piano performance or even really for piano practice. If you want a MIDI controller for this reason, I'd recommend going to a music store near you (if applicable) and playing a few and feeling the keys and go with the one that feels nicest for your budget.

I bought my wife a Yamaha Arius YDP-184 and she loves it. It's not 100% like the baby grand she does lessons on, but it's close enough for most purposes. It has a MIDI interface, but it's not really easily portable.
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