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Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

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Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#111

Post by justsomehnguy »

r00tanon wrote: post #101

ELI5 - everything about a phone only works when the carrier allows it to connect to the network. So, the way this is done is to, well, connect to the network and allow the phone to be unlocked - which according to the article is what happened? So the real complaint is that the Pixel can't be loaded with a customized Android OS (or Linux, etc.) without being connected to the internet first and this is bad because the…

> this is bad because the vendor might

Because the vendor can anytime say 'fuck you' and disable/remove the process which allows unlocking the bootloader.

Edit: already happened with Pixel 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35854552

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#112

Post by Dylan16807 »

kortilla wrote: post #106
Dylan16807 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the process doesn't work then return it as defective. Transfer of control isn't happening exactly at sale time but a few hours later isn't a big deal. Though of course that depends on it staying unlocked.

This is incorrect. Have you considered that the delay between getting the device and getting it connected could be well outside of the return window or people could be purchasing them in countries without such consumer rights? Smartphones aren’t only for the developed world.

Who buys a brand new phone but also has no internet connection for weeks? Do they have all the apps they need pre-downloaded? I don't think that's a big group.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#113

Post by [deleted] »

ouid wrote: post #63
jvanderbot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pixel's are locked down a very tiny bit , and I don't think this is some kind of dystopian over-reach with security as an excuse. For all the security listed in this thread the whole "I must connect to the internet once" problem is a very fair tradeoff from the user's perspective.

The internet is not a thing you connect to, what you must actually do is register your intent to disable the bootloader with an adversarially controlled server, and that server must respond with a yes.

[deleted]

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#114

Post by xg15 »

pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

> Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them.

Is this just philosophically speaking or were there some actual rights granted by law being violated?

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#115

Post by bombcar »

pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

> Some people claim [1] that they paid someone from China to unlock their Pixel 1 phone remotely using some shady approach. I assume that someone with inside information from Google has leaked some software and instructions for doing so. It is unclear whether later Pixel phones sold by Verizon with locked bootloaders could be unlocked in a similar way.

This usually involves someone who has bribed a Verizon support rep or otherwise obtained access to their internal systems so they can "unlock" you.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#116

Post by judge2020 »

MereInterest wrote: post #59
LiamPowell wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is correct, people generally don't get to own a device provided by their employer. Not allowing the bootloader to be unlocked on company-owned devices seems like a very desirable feature.

Not allowing a bootloader to be unlocked on a company-owned device does sound like a desirable feature, but only for company-owned devices. Applying that setup to all phones assumes that the default phone is a company-owned device and is subject to external control.

A different SKU for enterprise managed devices would cripple IT departments that don't pay the big bucks to e.g. verizon to manage their device provisioning & MDM enrollment.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#117

Post by williamDafoe »

Google has a console called panopticon where they can see every Chromebook in the world. This monitoring facility is used to measure bug / crash prevalence in e.g. 802.11 driver software and to determine how much of each fleet is running the latest ChromeOS security patches.

They can do this because Unlike Microsoft Google ports ChromeOS onto new laptops and tests the crap out of them (including the verification that the manufacturer meets about 25 min performance requirement standards for Chrome hardware like LCD viewing angles and speaker volume). They also test the laptops by giving them to employees and then demand hardware improvements of the manufacturers to get the Chrome branding logo.

I bet the have a similar system for for their HTC phones. So your Pixel is probably registering with a panopticon type system because 99.9% of customers are gonna use the stock OS. They do this so their users perceive and experience higher hardware reliability. So it may sound creepy but the goal (100% fleet registration) is hard to meet without forcing 1 internet connection at the 1st boot. It will be hard to meet your freedom goals and google's reliability goals at the same time ..

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#118

Post by azalemeth »

If I wanted to buy a new phone that I could root, install a custom ROM on, and use without voiding the warranty, what's the current best bet? One Plus used to be pretty good, but they've gone down in freedoms and up in price. Samsung are an obvious no. The entire design of the iPhone is specifically aimed at keeping the user out of it. Linux phones aren't usable yet. The shop on the /e/ foundation website seems to be selling flashed Samsung devices.

Is there an alternative?

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#119

Post by bitL »

pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

Can Pi Hole block these "phoning home" attempts?

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#120

Post by martius »

williamDafoe wrote: post #117

Google has a console called panopticon where they can see every Chromebook in the world. This monitoring facility is used to measure bug / crash prevalence in e.g. 802.11 driver software and to determine how much of each fleet is running the latest ChromeOS security patches. They can do this because Unlike Microsoft Google ports ChromeOS onto new laptops and tests the crap out of them (including the verification that…

Source for this?

There is a well known tool named Panopticon (abbreviated pcon) internally and this is not at all what you describe.

(I work at Google)

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