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FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

chess24.com

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Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#111

Post by mark_l_watson »

kelipso wrote: post #63
somenameforme wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also extremely odd to me that there was no Chinese press there. Ding's English is not excellent, and to not be able to catch his first moments in his native tongue seems to have been a major failing of the Chinese press.

Chess isn't really big in China. Maybe will get more popular with Ding now but I'm not holding my breath.

Chess is huge in China. The women’s world champion and also number two are both Chinese.

You are right that Chess is not as popular as Go in China.

Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#112

Post by bananamerica »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #2

Nepo has brought it on himself, losing that dramatic 12th game while leading in the score with a an unbelievable blunder. Hope he comes back for the next title challenge.

I love Nepo but I truly believe he should forget about being World Champion anymore. I just can't see the poor dude suffering another time.

Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#113

Post by somenameforme »

sgjohnson wrote: post #87
somenameforme wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long World Championship matches and normal tournaments are two very different beasts. Kramnik [convincingly] defeated Kasparov for the world championship in 2000, yet Kasparov was still the indisputably strongest tournament player in the world, and would remain so for the entirety of Kramnik's 6 year reign. Magnus' recent title defenses, except against Ian, have not been convincing. And against Ian, he was largely gi…

> This event showed who the strongest match player in the world is, and as of today - that is Ding Liren. The problem with the current WCC is that it’s very much up for debate, and this is like, your opinion. I don’t think Ding Liren is a better player than Magnus Carlsen. The current title is mostly symbolic. It means “the second best player in the world”.

You have to consider match vs tournament play. The two are really very different. In tournaments you're playing a small number of games against a large number of different opponents, of often dramatically different skill levels. The large number of players also often also all but guarantees that some of the players will be off form, and easy pickings for the rest of the crowd. It's a really fun and interesting dynamic but very different than match play.

For the world championship players spend the better part of a year, generally with a large team of other world class players, intensely preparing to play games against only a single player, studying their games, and finally unleashing absolutely everything they've discovered. And then there's a constant metagame knowing each game you play one day will be deeply studied by your opponent and his team, and he will come back fully prepared the next day.

Carlsen gave up his title because he no longer wanted to put the massive amounts of work in that are required to maintain it. Would he be the best match player if he started putting this work in again? Maybe? But he's chosen not to do that.

Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#114

Post by Upvoter33 »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #14

Great match by Ding and Ian both, and I honestly think Ding deserves the win in the end. I think Ian got a bit too results oriented and pragmatic towards the end of the match, playing too imprecisely and quickly in key positions and always a little too happy with a draw. Ding was just playing chess. And as often happens in chess, this ended up being the decisive psychological factor. Ian, going for a repetition, And…

I wouldn't agree with the "deserves to win". If you look at the classical matches, probably Ian had the slight edge, and tbh, he could have wrapped up the entire thing in Game 13(I may not be remembering the exact game, but the one where he had a strong position but gave it away and lost, thus leading to a tie).

And, honestly, in rapid, they were really really even. Even one better move at the end might have tied it up.

I think the match showed that they were about equal, not that really anyone was better.

Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#115

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

ebiester wrote: post #108
jyscao wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carlsen is clearly better than his contemporaries, no doubts about it. But calling the GOAT is a stretch.

Are you saying that he isn't even in the conversation, or that it's too hard to push him past Kasparov, Fischer, and Capablanca relative to his peers? (I can't reasonably put Morphy in this conversation, and I'm not sure anyone else has an argument.)

Not sure about GP, but he's definitely in the conversation for me though I think Fischer and probably Kasparov would be slightly ahead of him.

I would happily have Morphy in the conversation too, because he was so far ahead it's simply mind-boggling. He made his opponents, often the strongest players of the time besides him, look like idiots.

If we're judging only by strength relative to contemporaries, I think Morphy would take it.

If we judge only by absolute strength Carlsen at his peak is probably it. For some mix of the two, all the ones mentioned are potentially valid picks, and I'd include Lasker in that group as well.

Tal probably would've been if he was a lot healthier, but he doesn't make the list in an unfair world, though I'd be amiss not to at least mention my favourite historical player :)

Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#117

Post by jackmott42 »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #12

A lot of people (me included) thought this series was dire for Ding after watching him get crushed a few days ago by his opponent Nepo where Ding visibly froze and was in a state of total mental disarray after he couldn't decide on his move, wasted a ton of time, and ended up making a bad move anyways. Commenters said that this was Nepo's strength, even if he doesn't make the absolute greatest move he makes a good en…

Think of the chess players as facing a gigantic search problem. They don't have time to search everything, so they have to use intuition to decide what lines to calculate. Their intuition is very good but not perfect. So sometimes you get in a situation where you have computed the wrong lines and see no solution. The solution might be obvious on another day where you randomly don't cull the right lines, and very hard to find on a day when you are culling the good lines.

Ding when he froze was for whatever reason missing the good move, so felt he was lost, searching and searching for some solution. It seems crazy only because the engine is there telling us it is drawn. But the human is culling the lines that work for some misguided reason.

Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#118

Post by rvba »

Does the world championship use any detectors to check if participants arent cheating? Via some communication device, sounds, lights etc. that would tell moves taken from a computer or a set of helpers?

Alternatively someone could put some device inside their body. Are the participants scanned somehow?

Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#119

Post by hyperbovine »

Bootvis wrote: post #110
vikingerik wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Ding froze" assessment from game 7 was the fake-news media meme but wasn't the reality. He explained it after the fact. He knew what he was doing. He thought his position was lost, so he was calculating everything to look for a line to save a draw with perpetual checks / threefold repetition. He felt he had nothing to lose by expending all his time searching for that since he was going to lose anyway if he didn'…

c5 in game 9 by Nepo of the match against Carlsen was not a high variance play but just playing way below his level. All the commentators spotted it instantly.

You're not kidding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7REwQ4dSOk

Re: FIDE world chess championship decided in rapid tiebreaks

#120

Post by dlp211 »

NhanH wrote: post #68
kelipso wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or he was scared of losing after spending months preparing. He'll say whatever makes him look good probably but who knows.

He first voiced his discontent with the format around 13-15 years ago (he was #1 player by elo rating, but not yet the world champion), even skipping a cycle or two as protest. Afterward, he participated anyway and hold the title in fairly dominating fashion 10 years straight. Maybe we should take his words at face value and that he really is fed up with the thing.

To further solidify this, Magnus crushed Ian in the last WCC 7.5 to 3.5.

I think most folks agree that Magnus is the best player in the world, but the WCC was far better with him not in it.

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