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On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#111

Post by zamnos »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #100
lasfter wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without any prior forethought. Immediately, on a whim. E.g., "We were in Vegas and saw an Elvis chapel, so we spontaneously decided to get married!" They were in Vegas without any plans of marriage, saw a venue, and decided immediately to marry.

That seems like exactly the meaning that "spontan" has in Germany. It's like you plan to be in Vegas but there you spontaneously decide to get married. In German, you would say "Wir sind nach Vegas in den Urlaub geflogen und haben dort spontan geheiratet", so pretty much identical.

That's different than vanderZwan's quoted description of what spontan means in the GP comment.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#112

Post by AlecSchueler »

kwanbix wrote: post #38
worklaptopacct wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a new Berliner who immigrated here I can answer some of those: - Berlin has a reputation for its artsy party scene and lax enforcement of drug laws. People come here in their 20s to let themselves loose. - German universities are good quality and free for all (excluding the Semesterpauschale, but for my American or British friends this 300€ is basically nothing in comparison - especially when you count in the publ…

I now what you probably mean when you say "free", that you don't have to pay for it, but in reality, the universities are paid by everyone. Same for health care. I pay 400 euros per month. Of course, then I don't pay much else. But the cost is distributed, they are not "free". Maybe I am sensitive to the word, because in my home country, Argentina, populism has made people believe that everything has to be "free".

In the UK we have the term "free at the point of service."

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#113

Post by worklaptopacct »

The_Colonel wrote: post #71
kwanbix wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I now what you probably mean when you say "free", that you don't have to pay for it, but in reality, the universities are paid by everyone. Same for health care. I pay 400 euros per month. Of course, then I don't pay much else. But the cost is distributed, they are not "free". Maybe I am sensitive to the word, because in my home country, Argentina, populism has made people believe that everything has to be "free".

That's a good point and we should differentiate. The taxes in Europe are very high for a reason.

It's about mentality. Americans strive to attain the ideal of a "self-made man"; prizing work ethic and self-sufficiency. Germans (Europeans is too broad of a label) are okay with learning a trade and then doing their job consistently for the rest of their lives - that's why the employment conditions in Germany are tuned towards long-term, stable employment.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#114

Post by aix1 »

pjmlp wrote: post #85
ben_w wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm British by birth, I chose Berlin after Brexit because: 1. Friends here 2. Alternative countries were Luxembourg/Switzerland (more expensive); Canada (worse weather); Ireland (fear I might get blamed personally for the stupid done by British politicians, and the UK Gov was being loudly stupid about Ireland at the time); USA (weird culture, guns); Australia/New Zealand (too far from the old country to visit regular…

If you travel to NRW, you will get the special forces police units using those kinds of guns on train stations, specially in days where critical football matches are taking place.

> If you travel to NRW

North Rhine-Westphalia? (Don't live in Germany, took me a while.)

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#115

Post by tarkin2 »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #100
lasfter wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without any prior forethought. Immediately, on a whim. E.g., "We were in Vegas and saw an Elvis chapel, so we spontaneously decided to get married!" They were in Vegas without any plans of marriage, saw a venue, and decided immediately to marry.

That seems like exactly the meaning that "spontan" has in Germany. It's like you plan to be in Vegas but there you spontaneously decide to get married. In German, you would say "Wir sind nach Vegas in den Urlaub geflogen und haben dort spontan geheiratet", so pretty much identical.

Yeah. The article is confused.

In its example deciding spontaneously is fine since you're not deciding what to decide but you're deciding that you will decide and then later you'll suddenly decide what to decide. The decision to decide was planned but the substance of the decision is yet to be decided.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#116

Post by brnt »

skrebbel wrote: post #53
ben_w wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm British by birth, I chose Berlin after Brexit because: 1. Friends here 2. Alternative countries were Luxembourg/Switzerland (more expensive); Canada (worse weather); Ireland (fear I might get blamed personally for the stupid done by British politicians, and the UK Gov was being loudly stupid about Ireland at the time); USA (weird culture, guns); Australia/New Zealand (too far from the old country to visit regular…

Come to Holland! It's basically Belgium with better frontyards and nicer cops.

> nicer cops

Until you actually need them. They'll do everything they can to get out from doing any work. Especially if you are foreign.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#118

Post by flohofwoe »

mgraupner wrote: post #44
G3rn0ti wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a false friend for a German. The German adverb „spontan“ does not mean „spontaneously“. The former means „at short notice“ while the latter „without direction“.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/worterbuch/englisch/spon... "spontaneously" translates to "spontan".

Yeah weird, the description "in a way that is natural, often sudden, and not planned or forced" is exactly the meaning in German too. Maybe "spontaneous" has different semantics between US and UK English?

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#119

Post by kergonath »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #100
lasfter wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without any prior forethought. Immediately, on a whim. E.g., "We were in Vegas and saw an Elvis chapel, so we spontaneously decided to get married!" They were in Vegas without any plans of marriage, saw a venue, and decided immediately to marry.

That seems like exactly the meaning that "spontan" has in Germany. It's like you plan to be in Vegas but there you spontaneously decide to get married. In German, you would say "Wir sind nach Vegas in den Urlaub geflogen und haben dort spontan geheiratet", so pretty much identical.

Something spontaneous is something that happens on its own. If you can say that you will do something, then it is not spontaneous. You cannot decide to do something spontaneous next week because then you’ve planned it. Improvised may be better suited in that case, from what I understand. It’s similar in French: “il y aura un rassemblement spontané” (there will be a spontaneous gathering) is nonsense. Even if it is understandable, it would label you as a foreigner or uneducated.

Similar words generally have different scopes in different languages, or have more meanings in a language than in another. So you have to go further than the first meaning in a dictionary to make sure that a word is right in a given context.

For the sake of the argument, if we assume that a word with one meaning in English has the same meaning in German plus another one, then using it with the second meaning in English is wrong. Native speakers are very sensitive to words being slightly wrong or use in slightly wrong places. It happens all the time with foreign languages, and I am sure a native English speaker could point out one example in this very post.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#120

Post by m_fayer »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #28
MandieD wrote: post #11

Observation of Berlin from the weekend I spent there last month: literally the only place I was better off speaking German rather than English was a Turkish cafe. Everywhere else? Too many people understood English far better than they did German, especially anywhere to do with tech. Some of the tech people I talked to were running into being otherwise eligible for a permanent residence permit, but not being able to…

One thing that is specific to Berlin is that increasingly bars and cafes are staffed by foreigners. This is a quirk of the German employment system, a scarcity of staff, and the wide availability of expats in need of gigs. Instead of hiring permanent staff and paying them a salary, it's less risky to have temporary workers. However, you can't do that endlessly with the same people in the German system. You would have…

When I moved to Berlin 15 years ago, this was not the case. Many bars and cafes were staffed by German-speaking people in their 30s - underpaid artistic or intellectual types or professional partiers making an extra buck. This had a particular charm - they were often cranky and unconcerned, but they kept the same job for a long time and you could get to know them and feel like a "regular." This kept me returning to the same places time and again.

These days, and especially post-covid, the faces are shockingly young, obviously inexperienced with the skilled or social sides of their job, and seem to never last more than a month or two. The charm is completely gone.

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