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BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

bloomberg.com

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Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#111

Post by sdwr »

seydor wrote: post #77
legitster wrote: post #18

A lot of commenters are obsessed with just finding money. You can't eat money. You can't build a house out of it (advisably). Money is only as valuable as the amount of stuff in an economy. More money with the same amount of stuff is just inflation. The Pound does not need more inflation. Money and trade are only valuable in so much as they aid exchange and efficiency. On a real, practical-level Brexit made England m…

Money is zero sum and it determines who owns the 'stuff'. Higher wages mean working-age generations are able to generate some wealth whereas until now only older generations could, as their assets continuously appreciated without losing value due to inflation. I see the whole thing as intergenerational conflict. Pre-genX'ers went through a period of high inflation, which was also one of historically low inequality, f…

Totally agree, love the perspective.

But while money is zero-sum, velocity of money is not. It takes trust to spend on investments or services. Less "stuff" happening means everyone loses.

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#112

Post by carlosjobim »

dylan604 wrote: post #54
falcolas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economists keep chiding us about how that will ruin the economy too. They tell us our population must keep growing to keep the economy healthy.

Isn't this just an example of how the economy is a legitimized Ponzi scheme?

Yes, but it's not the economy, it is human society at large. All those little laws, rules and customs are made for old people to exploit younger people. The old people bought in first, just as is the right thing to do when you participate in a Ponzi scheme. So it's only fair that they have have all capital, all entitlements, and all power politically and economically. Play along in the scam and maybe one day also you will get the benefit and pleasure of being old to the game and exploiting young people like suckers. That's what life is all about, and young people only have themselves to blame for not being born when the getting was good.

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#113

Post by carlosjobim »

dylan604 wrote: post #101
pyuser583 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not just talking about families, but societies. My parents who are retired are not adding value to the economy. I am. I’m not caring for them directly, but they are dependents. Their investments give them paper money that only has value because my generation works. I have one sister. So two children and two parents is perfectly sustainable.

Until you have kids

Any working person in our modern industrialized society can have a productive output that can support many people. Productivity has sky rocketed, as well as population.

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#114

Post by carlosjobim »

pyuser583 wrote: post #99
Nesco wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s assuming there are no externalities whatsoever to immigration and that the immigrants will be able to satisfy the demand in labor and in entrepreneurs as well as the natives. From my own experience, in France, both of those assumptions are heavily violated. It can vary depending of the type of immigration though, I bet the story is different for California

There are definitely economically bad forms of migration. I was talking about O-1 visa type migration: highly qualified individuals being admitted based on their credentials. Hiring the next generation, instead of breeding and raising it.

Wait, were you serious with that post above? I was sure you were making a parody.

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#115

Post by imtringued »

pdntspa wrote: post #21
andrewmutz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no tax shortfall. Taxing tax havens is fine but you shouldn't expect it to limit inflation very much.

The British government levying spurious taxes on its remaining colonies. I am absolutely sure that's going to go well.

I don't know about British overseas islands but the French ones have the problem that they are absolutely tiny. At 13k residents there is not much tax revenue you can get out of them and sending the money back to the mainland only makes their trade deficits worse.

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#116

Post by zsz »

dylan604 wrote: post #101
pyuser583 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not just talking about families, but societies. My parents who are retired are not adding value to the economy. I am. I’m not caring for them directly, but they are dependents. Their investments give them paper money that only has value because my generation works. I have one sister. So two children and two parents is perfectly sustainable.

Until you have kids

Population replacement rate is 2.1 children per woman--meaning, in order for a population's size to remain the same, on average child births have to come out to 2.1 for every woman. All Western countries have been well below replacement level, for many decades at this point.

Taking the example of One brother and one sister, the sister would have to bear 2.1 children, while the brother would have to have 2.1 children with another woman, in order to merely keep the population size level.

The reason for this is obvious: two sets of parents=4 people, the same number as the 2*2.1 children (minus premature deaths, etc.).

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#117

Post by Borrible »

dylan604 wrote: post #54
falcolas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economists keep chiding us about how that will ruin the economy too. They tell us our population must keep growing to keep the economy healthy.

Isn't this just an example of how the economy is a legitimized Ponzi scheme?

Well, at least Welfare states look like lifecycle redistribution machines between young and old:

https://population-europe.eu/research/policy-briefs/welfare-...

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#118

Post by gghhzzgghhzz »

theGnuMe wrote: post #107
gghhzzgghhzz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are happy to ignore the reasons why the Brexit vote happened in the first place, or why similar anti-establishment votes keep happening throughout the western world. There are systemic issues that no main stream political project seems capable of addressing, it's pointless to simply remove some trade barriers again to paper things over, and then pat ourselves on the back and pretend they are being solved. Brex…

You say there’s fundamental reasons but don’t state the actual reasons. What are they? I’m gonna go with nationalists who don’t want foreigners moving to the uk to take our jobs.

That the economic and political system didn't deliver for a large segment of people. They felt increasingly poorer and less secure. They were offered a big button by they government with a large '** you!' written on it, and they pressed it.

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#119

Post by rich_sasha »

gghhzzgghhzz wrote: post #81
mkoubaa wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conditions existed long before Brexit, _and_ Brexit made it materially worse

I'm not convinced about that. This worship of free trade we had was completely unrestricted. A lot of trade was completely decoupled from any real benefit or political or social project or any environmental concerns. If KPIs from trade and financial services are the main thing that are measured, then you will always end up with trade for trade's sake. “Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they…

Brexit has exacerbated at least 2 industries due to labour shortages - and probably more. These in turn translate into materially worse conditions for everyone.

First one is childcare. Nurseries and preschools were full of nice, dedicated people from Europe working for modest wages - for one reason or another they were happy with it. They have mostly gone home, or return soon after coming. I see this first-hand. I had to take my daughter from an increasingly understaffed nursery, with a staff turnover of, dunno, 100-200%, to a much more expensive one, staffed by very nice and very good English people, but costing 50% more. Other parents at the original nursery are told to take their kids away or accept a 30% day rate increase effective immediately. Schools are short-staffed for similar reasons. Schools are on strike for the 5th time this year, I believe, exacerbated by low staffing and overworked teachers. The parents of the grounded children won't make it to work today. Some of these people not coming to work will cause other people to not make it to work - there are train cancellations near me due to parents taking time off work to cover school strikes.

The other is the NHS. Again, this was largely running on highly qualified staff from the EU. They are, also, mostly gone. And NHS complaint #1 in my area isn't actually pay, it's the insane working conditions caused by understaffing.

NHS and schooling are among the top problems in the UK right now. Add social care for the elderly and agriculture, both running off immigrant workforce, and I'll say with confidence Brexit made it all much worse.

Re: BOE Chief Economist Says Britons ‘Need to Accept’ They’re Worse Off

#120

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

rich_sasha wrote: post #119
gghhzzgghhzz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced about that. This worship of free trade we had was completely unrestricted. A lot of trade was completely decoupled from any real benefit or political or social project or any environmental concerns. If KPIs from trade and financial services are the main thing that are measured, then you will always end up with trade for trade's sake. “Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they…

Brexit has exacerbated at least 2 industries due to labour shortages - and probably more. These in turn translate into materially worse conditions for everyone. First one is childcare. Nurseries and preschools were full of nice, dedicated people from Europe working for modest wages - for one reason or another they were happy with it. They have mostly gone home, or return soon after coming. I see this first-hand. I ha…

Isn't that why UK is easing migration conditions from Africa and Asia now? To cover the shortage left by the EU migrants?

A friend of mine who just moved to the UK, went to a migrant GP who barely spoke English and was googling his symptoms to give him a diagnostic lol. No idea how he was allowed to practice medicine in the UK but it's terrifying.

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