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Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#111
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That theory fails to account for Japan's failed semiconductor industry.

No it doesn't, because Japanese companies aren't Korean, Chinese, or Taiwanese.

So? What's the evidence for Japanese companies being more susceptible to "Harvard Business School ideas" than Korean, Chinese, or Taiwanese companies?

Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#112
post #96
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, how am I overshooting? Reading your comment it seems like we are both in agreement. Or did I read you wrong?

Yes I'm agreeing with you, I think the situation is much worse than that though.

Ah I see now. Thanks to everyone else who chimed in.

Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#113
I think it’s a mistake to focus on ASML. Manufacturing silicon chips is incredibly complex, yes some of the complexity is handled by ASML but that’s one tool in a massive chain. Think about it partly in the same way as car manufacturers, point at a part in my car? Bosch probably made it. That doesn’t mean my car is a Bosch. TSMC is about bringing together the entire tool chain. To compare them to their biggest competitors- the reason Intel failed partly because they made a bet on technology for the next generation of chips and it didn’t pan out, but the underlying reason was their processes failed.

Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#114
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of an aside, but your comment made me realize how much we don’t know about the process used to create the technologies that underpin our civilization. We (laymen) have no idea about the incredible complexity behind manufacturing a single CPU chip.

Many years ago I sat next to the CTO of Broadcom on a plane. We struck up a conversation and when I learned he worked for a chip designer I asked the question that I assumed was the most difficult part. I asked how the engineers laid out the circuits physically on the chip. He laughed and told me the engineers write software that defines the parameters and functions and the software lays out the chip (I know I am ove…

This was probably not true many years ago, or at least was a simplification. Even with some automated routing, there are many subtleties like high frequency electronics; not trying to have your radio equipment routing through your power supply, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#116
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of an aside, but your comment made me realize how much we don’t know about the process used to create the technologies that underpin our civilization. We (laymen) have no idea about the incredible complexity behind manufacturing a single CPU chip.

Many years ago I sat next to the CTO of Broadcom on a plane. We struck up a conversation and when I learned he worked for a chip designer I asked the question that I assumed was the most difficult part. I asked how the engineers laid out the circuits physically on the chip. He laughed and told me the engineers write software that defines the parameters and functions and the software lays out the chip (I know I am ove…

They even have their own languages for coding the chip logic ( Verilog is one). My partner did chip design and layout. The used a tool call magma (We have some mugs from a conference she went to) but they got bought by synopsis. Very expensive, very specialized software

https://www.synopsys.com/#

Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#117

Semiconductor industry has the deepest and most complex value chain in the economy. TSMC has always been pure fab company and it pays off now. Samsung and Intel are also in chip design business and do other things. They are less focused. TSMC's lead is not guaranteed. Any new technology node can fail and remove them from competition if they make wrong choices. I'm not exaggerating when I say that designing a new tech…

>I'm not exaggerating when I say that designing a new technology node for mass production is like a moon program. It's insane. I had a friend tell me about what goes on in these asml machines. Essentially the targeting system that moves the wafer around cannot have any vibration so I kid you not the platform is floating and controlled by magnets. And this is just the etching machine.

The etching process that uses a laser to blast a moving molten tin sphere to shape it so the next laser blast that vaporizes it produces parallel EUV light is pretty insane, too. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ge2RcvDlgw

Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#118
post #6

The short answer is during a time of massive profits of semi companies, most cashed out. One (TSMC) has kept reinvesting gains into R&D for the last 20 years. Lithography via ASML is the cutting edge advance, but there are many other small details too. Both in the technology itself but also in the complexity of integrating that technology to work together in one process.

I think that one of the greatest advantages that Korean, Chinese, and Taiwanese companies have is that most of them seem to be somewhat immune to Harvard Business School ideas, and Jack Welch was never worshipped as he was in the West. Keeping the bean counters under leash is good for building long-term value.

Samsung, as a conglomerate with all the affiliates makes up 20% or so of Korea's economy. The entire state is motivated to keep it going,so a financial analysis of some 20 year old in wall Street don't have such a huge impact. TSMC is the same, it's a strategic company in taiwan,so again the entire country ensures it's not going anywhere. In the west, GE and similar companies are important, but not that important,so idiots like Jack Welch get more mileage than they'd get in Asia.

Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#119
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has been an ally of Taiwan since before the CCP existed.

"Being an ally" and "Ready to defend against China" are very different qualities.

The main reason Taiwan is still independent is that US was willing to defend it for all those years.

Re: Ask HN: Why is TSMC so competitive in semiconductor fabrication?

#120

Taiwan has invested in it like it was it's military. And it worked, they got to the point that the US would defend them from a Chinese invention.

The US had a strategically ambiguous alliance with Taiwan a long time before TSMC. Take a look at a map of the Pacific. Color China red, color Taiwan blue. That really bottles up China's navy. Change Taiwan to red: now China has easy access to the Pacific.
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