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Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

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Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#111

Post by latchkey »

Alex3917 wrote: post #35
jedberg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase has asked them many times though. The article even mentions this. They met 30 times to seek clarity on the rules.

This reminds me a lot of a different Armstrong repeatedly saying that he couldn’t be doping because he was the most drug-tested athlete in history. In reality, the law is perfectly clear and hasn’t changed in decades, so what would giving clarity even mean?

If the law is perfectly clear, is ETH a security or a commodity? Gensler can't even answer that question.

https://twitter.com/sassal0x/status/1648338351832064003

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#112

Post by twic »

latchkey wrote: post #108
linuxftw wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting downvoted, but you're 100% correct.

> Why would Coinbase think that it could run a securities brokerage, exchange, and clearing house without registering with the SEC? Coinbase is a public company on NASDAQ. They are about as registered with the SEC, as possible. Update: cause I'm getting downvotes. See below. The point that I'm making is that if this company is acting illegally, then why is it still trading?

The registration under discussion here is registration as a broker-dealer, or an exchange, or whatever, not as a listed company.

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#113

Post by jpgvm »

mason55 wrote: post #69
rekttrader wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sec is not a supervisory agency, they’re a regulator meaning they step in after the fact for investor protections. The sec had plenty of open sessions where folks in the industry would ask for guidance and yet it was not gotten because they don’t tell the capital or crypto markets what should be in the markets they’re here to pull down the things that shouldn’t be. The sec allows “junk bonds” if you disclose the…

> Heck, you can buy VIX for CDS... let’s think about that for a second... that’s a mortgage, packed into a portfolio Are you thinking MBS maybe? CDS is credit default swap, has nothing to do with mortgages

I think he means you can buy a volatility index on the market for CDSs for MBSs, it's a derivative of a derivative essentially.

In this case you would want to be long such a product when people become suddenly concerned about default risk of MBS but you yourself don't want to be long CDSs on those MBS.

A good reason for this could be you are worried that similar to 2008 going long CDSs could leave you subject to intolerable counter-party risk while the vendor offering the derivative could perhaps be more solvent in the case your VIX contracts pay out. Or it simply offers you more leverage, "jacked to the tits" in The Big Short parlence.

Very speculative regardless but that is just how higher order derivative products in finance are.

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#114

Post by wslh »

JohnFen wrote: post #100
wslh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with you. There are many actors in the crypto ecosystem and sadly the scammers and bad guys have, in general, better execution an exposure that the good ones. Personally I was involved in helping representatives in writing laws to move forward. If there is no guidance you can build an organization that could be destroyed arbitrarily in one day. SEC had enough time... I don't want to exaggerate but it se…

> bad guys have, in general, better execution an exposure that the good ones. So much better that I take it purely on faith that there are decent people in that space. I have to take it on faith, because I haven't actually seen or heard from any of them and so have no evidence that they exist.

I consider others and my company, good actors in the space: think about the space critically and giving transparent feedback and scenarios between the skepticism and the utopia.

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#115

Post by [deleted] »

burkaman wrote: post #87
prottog wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exchange-traded commodity futures (including those for physical delivery of 100 troy ounces of gold) have existed for a long time and are regulated by the CFTC.

Right, and those are securities, but gold itself is not a security because it's relatively difficult to trade.

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#116

Post by legitster »

I think the situation can be summed up nicely by Matt Levine:

> "There is a traditional financial system, and crypto has built a different system, and the SEC has pretty much everywhere said “nah, you gotta follow the traditional system.” And crypto people have said “well we can’t really do that because ...” and the SEC has said “shh, shh, we don’t care.”

Barring an act of congress to change the purview of the SEC, I don't think there is much to stop them. Maybe there was a chance before the FTX debacle and fallout - but I think now the SEC sees the industry as weak enough to strangle with a pillow.

Good and bad, regulators act as white blood cells for the systems they regulate. Their obsession is always going to be to root out abnormalities and protect the host.

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#117

Post by dgellow »

daedalus_f wrote: post #99
dgellow wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you’re saying that Coinbase knowingly offered unregistered security. And acknowledged that’s not legal. The fact the SEC refuses these securities to be registered doesn’t negate the illegal offering of unregistered securities.

If you look at the recent SEC filing, they present evidence Coinbase likely knew what they were doing was illegal and coached companies wanting to list coins on the exchange on how to remove “problematic language” from their promotional material that might make it too obvious they were selling unregistered securities.

Yeah, I cannot really see how they can defend their position here. That will be an interesting case to follow, Coinbase legal team will have to be _creative_.

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#118

Post by figassis »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #74
true_religion wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ought to. Giving advice is the difference between having the government work with the people, on the same side, and having it be an adversary. The goal should be legal compliance and productive companies. Not clarifying what you will or will not prosecute simply creates unnecessary fear and distrust of the system. Think of all the crime that would not be committed if only the SEC said it was criminal before hand…

SEC doesn't give legal advice because they don't make the laws. Want legal advice? Talk to a lawyer. But if your council tells you it's OK to push some boundaries then don't be surprised if you get slapped. And if you don't like getting slapped then you can go to court. Which is exactly what is happening. Seems like the system is working as intended.

You don't need to make the laws to give advice. Are you saying the SEC can't or isn't required? Because not being required does not mean they shouldn't do it.

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#119

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

jedberg wrote: post #104
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SEC doesn't give legal advice because they don't make the laws. Want legal advice? Talk to a lawyer. But if your council tells you it's OK to push some boundaries then don't be surprised if you get slapped. And if you don't like getting slapped then you can go to court. Which is exactly what is happening. Seems like the system is working as intended.

The SEC enforces the law, and it should be totally normal for them to say "this is how we plan to enforce this law". By not saying so, they create a lot of unnecessary churn. Imagine you are outside a store, and there is a police officer outside. You ask them "If I go inside and take some bread off the shelf and walk out without paying, is that ok?". Should the officer say "talk to a lawyer" or should they say "I wou…

First of all, not everything can be reduced to the absolute most simplistic of metaphors like you're trying to do.

Second,

> Last month, the SEC issued Coinbase with a Wells notice, which is often one of the final steps before the regulator formally issues charges. It generally lays out the framework of the regulatory argument and offers the potentially accused an opportunity to rebut the SEC’s claims.

It sounds like Coinbase has gotten the answers they were looking for, they just don't like it.

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#120

Post by latchkey »

twic wrote: post #112
latchkey wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would Coinbase think that it could run a securities brokerage, exchange, and clearing house without registering with the SEC? Coinbase is a public company on NASDAQ. They are about as registered with the SEC, as possible. Update: cause I'm getting downvotes. See below. The point that I'm making is that if this company is acting illegally, then why is it still trading?

The registration under discussion here is registration as a broker-dealer, or an exchange, or whatever, not as a listed company.

Tom Anderson, of myspace? Wow. Hi!

Let me direct you to this:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coinbase-says-just-no-way-to-...

The whole point here is that Coinbase is acting in good faith by trying to do things "the right way"... including becoming a public company and trying to register in whatever compliance ways they can. All the way to announcing that they will go to court over all of this. All because their existing efforts haven't worked.

Update: the discussion is happening right now around how coinbase is a public company that is being declared that it is doing illegal things. If so, then why is it still trading?

https://www.youtube.com/live/DSsp8Rvh5n0?feature=share

-4:15

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