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There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

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Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#111

Post by WorldMaker »

maxerickson wrote: post #80
rektide wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love for there to be some competition. Absolutely. This submission is about cordless power tools batteries, so that somewhat affects the scope. In general, cords can be super dangerous & limiting for power tools, so battery based has naturally really taken the heck over, for all kinds of good reasons. Even still, I think the questioning is fine & good, could apply to this segment. Bluetooth is a bit hard because…

Oh, the Bluetooth thing was just an aside about not caring about having communications on the same cable as power for higher power devices, I don't think it's very relevant to power tools. My point was more about not having the higher power delivery implementation tied to a complicated, relatively expensive, high speed data bus. The reason stuff doesn't do any reporting is that people mostly don't care and it would a…

> My point was more about not having the higher power delivery implementation tied to a complicated, relatively expensive, high speed data bus.

The reason most DC power delivery systems failed to be general purpose was that unless you pick some not very useful lowest common denominator voltage you need some sort of data bus to request/negotiate/handshake voltage for each device. If you are already building in a data bus into your power delivery lines you might as well give it some speed so that you could run other communications over it, at which point you likely just wind-up reinventing something like USB if you are planning a "simple, dumb DC power delivery standard".

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#112

Post by dieselgate »

bombcar wrote: post #95
datpiff wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my experience it's the prosumer market that gets really rabid about their tool color. Do NOT cross the Red Army! Turn-over is much lower. A professional may buy a whole line of tools from a single brand but with the expectation that they may replace them all in several years. This allows some level of comparison and movement between brands as quality varies over time. The part-timer/prosumer is locked in for a…

It can vary company-by-company, but many contractors are their own little company and use the tool they need; a $250 battery is nothing if they need to keep working. They also may not even bother warrantying a dead battery or tool unless it is painlessly easy (literally give it back to Home Depot when there to get something else), since the time spent isn't worth it.

Also the cost of it for the contractor is just passed onto the consumer/client if they’re doing business “right”.

I used to work at HD supply hardware store (store targeting commercial contractors) and there isn’t even price tags on the items at all. Stuff is super expensive but all that stuff is baked into contract budgets

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#114

Post by SideQuark »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

The tool costs $100. The battery costs $100. The tools only work with the one battery, the batteries need replacing, and you need more of them to use multiple tools at once. It is about money. Money from batteries, money from vendor lock in. This isn't cynicism, it's economics. These companies would probably lose at least half of their profit, maybe much more, if they gave up the battery. And there's more reasons. If…

I have several tools, thus several batteries, and never use them all at once. I have never in well over a decade had to replace a battery.

And even though they changed battery tech, all the tools still work with batteries in both directions. They designed each new battery tech to do that.

What tool system do you think has all the problems you listed?

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#115

Post by citrin_ru »

JohnFen wrote: post #101
bombcar wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can vary company-by-company, but many contractors are their own little company and use the tool they need; a $250 battery is nothing if they need to keep working. They also may not even bother warrantying a dead battery or tool unless it is painlessly easy (literally give it back to Home Depot when there to get something else), since the time spent isn't worth it.

> They also may not even bother warrantying a dead battery or tool unless it is painlessly easy I'm this way as an individual customer, to be honest. I ignore warranties entirely because they're rarely worth all of the hassle that comes with them.

It’s a rational choice for an individual but if people would always use warranty it would create an incentive for manufacturer to keep some minimal quality level to reduce cost of replacements/returns.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#116

Post by andromeduck »

westurner wrote: post #107

From "USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27295621 : > What are the costs to add a USB PD module to an electronic device? https://hackaday.com/2021/04/21/easy-usb%E2%80%91c-power-for... > - [ ] Create an industry standard interface for charging and using [power tool,] battery packs; and adapters From "Zero energy ready homes are coming" https:/…

Anything but USB-C.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#117

Post by westurner »

andromeduck wrote: post #116
westurner wrote: post #107

From "USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27295621 : > What are the costs to add a USB PD module to an electronic device? https://hackaday.com/2021/04/21/easy-usb%E2%80%91c-power-for... > - [ ] Create an industry standard interface for charging and using [power tool,] battery packs; and adapters From "Zero energy ready homes are coming" https:/…

Anything but USB-C.

Hopefully the counter-proposal doesn't involve a custom barrel jack, eh?

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#118

Post by rektide »

JohnFen wrote: post #105
crote wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could potentially be fixed by overmolding the USB-C connector: keep the connector, but stick it in a little jacket to make it foolproof. A bit like etherCON[0]: compatible, but way more rugged. They actually already have variants for USB-A![1] There is already a USB-C variant, but that one seems a bit lacking.[2] [0]: https://www.neutrik.com/en/products/data/ethercon [1]: https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/product…

I thought we were talking about USB-C as the interface between the battery and the tool. If that's the case, the connector would be embedded in the battery so it mates with the receptacle when you clip the battery onto the tool. There wouldn't be something you can put a sleeve on (and that wouldn't be necessary as the case of the battery is, effectively, the ruggedized sleeve.) I have an SBC that mates with an extern…

If the battery already had to slide into place, it the jack & plug were already pre-aligned, I think the connector reliability would be absurdly good.

The biggest on the job problem would probably shift away from mechanical stress entirely, & be an issue of degree. Sawdust & gunk getting into the jack or plug.

I agree that a better connector would be awesome. I'd love a high amp big leafy thing.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#119

Post by nikau »

hgsgm wrote: post #110
StrangeATractor wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a secret in construction, you buy one brand of cordless tools and stick with it. DeWalt sells tools so cheap you wonder if they're a loss leader. A single battery (one of the big 60V, 12Ah ones you use for circular saws and angle grinders) is $285 on Amazon. The biggest cordless circular is $178, the biggest grinder is $163. You'll want at least two of those batteries per day if you're doing any serious wo…

Why aren't ZYXNOO and BAJIP and all those Amazon brands selling cheap and modular replacements?

They are.

I have some clone Makita batteries and tools that are fine.

Your average tradie would rather just do a cash in hand extra job vs spending that time researching and waiting for some clone tools from China.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#120

Post by IshKebab »

halestock wrote: post #5

Vendor lock-in. If I buy a Makita drill that comes with a universal battery, I'm just as likely (all other things being equal) to buy a DeWalt or Milwaukee circular saw as another Makita. But if my drill batteries only work with Makita products, I have a big incentive to stick with that brand.

I converted a Bosch hedge trimmer to DeWalt (because I have a DeWalt drill) by just bolting a DeWalt battery socket I got from AliExpress to the bottom. Obviously not elegant but I was glad it just worked with + and -; no digital crap to deal with.
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