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Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

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Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#111

Post by dheera »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #104
myth2018 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like a third-world country: in America, you're better off being either totally penniless or a billionaire. If you don't have a balance sheet of $5 megabucks, your life will be miserable. I live in a "third-world" country. My family and I have insurance and only use private hospitals -- the capitalist portion of the system. Never had as bad an incident as the ones you guys are reporting here. Just some minor annoyan…

When I was living in China working for Microsoft, our company provided insurance had a cap on claims paid ($100k), so while everything was cheap enough via the private system, I wondered if I was screwed if I ever got cancer or something really bad.

Yeah that doesn't sound like insurance to me at all.

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#112

Post by peter-m80 »

The funny part is that US people are paying more (2x) for public health (not private) than the average european and receiving nothing in return... And they say public healthcare is communism. That shot in my country would cost 0. Like a cancer treatment or giving birth. Just 0. That's why we pay taxes.

I'm glad I don't live in the US.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#113

Post by psychphysic »

1letterunixname wrote: post #57
psychphysic wrote: post #40

So healthcare costs like 500-1k per month for the good stuff. And you still might have to pay through the nose for a £75 vaccine? Or is this a case of bad insurance? That the US can spy on the entire world but can't get its own people basic healthcare is shocking.

No, it depends on your age, health, and coverage. For limited disastrous healthcare coverage, that might get you $1m in lifetime coverage with a $8k deductible if you were 28 and in perfect health.

You didn't say how much that would cost.

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#114

Post by salawat »

etrautmann wrote: post #100
maxerickson wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors could, to some approximation anyway, go on strike. They endorse the system we have by working in it (and have not been silent participants in building either).

It seems uncommon for one group to strike on behalf of another group. Pragmatically that seems very unlikely to happen even if theoretically possible. Policy level changes seem more likely to me.

That is by design. Look up the Taft-Hartley Act. Secondary striking is a forbidden labor practice in the United States. Any doctor's union that orchestrated one would be in hot water legally. It would essentially have to be a collective action orchestrated by distinct individuals with no legal entity providing any type of war chest.

To be clear, I believe at least that section of Taft-Hartley is arguably unconstitutional, and worthy of getting civil disobedienced hard. I just don't see it as likely to happen in such a way as to be effective in facilitating change. Add on top of that the onerous burden of medical school debt, and I don't exactly see many being willing to make that choice.

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#115

Post by piva00 »

1letterunixname wrote: post #68
dheera wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got charged $5000 for a 30-minute preventative echocardiogram (basically an ultrasound) that insurance was supposed to pay 100%. 20 emails later it's now at debt collectors, and I've contested the debt twice. I'm ready to appear in court if I have to. I'm ready to pay $8K in lawyer fees to get rid of this $5K bill because it's wrong. I just don't want this to impact my credit score because it's not my debt. I hate…

Oh my word. 2018, I was on Medi-Cal (Medic-aid) and had a stress ECG, right heart catheterization, and 12-lead EKG when admitted to their cardiac unit for 3 days. Cost $0. Like a third-world country: in America, you're better off being either totally penniless or a billionaire. If you don't have a balance sheet of $5 megabucks, your life will be miserable. The advantage most European and other countries have under so…

> The advantage most European and other countries have under socialism is it means there's a minimum average quality of life everyone. Pay more in taxes but get a lot more in terms of a more dignified, healthier, and longer life free from the slavery of "gotcha!" gangster capitalism.

It will sound like a nitpick but it's not: there's no socialism in Europe. Socialism is an economic system, not a synonym for "socially-focused policies" through societal-level welfare.

European countries are capitalists, completely. What we do have is a better support system for welfare, more labour protections and regulations to protect against the massive power imbalance that untamed capitalism creates but it's not socialism. Not even close.

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#116

Post by autoexec »

piva00 wrote: post #115
1letterunixname wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my word. 2018, I was on Medi-Cal (Medic-aid) and had a stress ECG, right heart catheterization, and 12-lead EKG when admitted to their cardiac unit for 3 days. Cost $0. Like a third-world country: in America, you're better off being either totally penniless or a billionaire. If you don't have a balance sheet of $5 megabucks, your life will be miserable. The advantage most European and other countries have under so…

> The advantage most European and other countries have under socialism is it means there's a minimum average quality of life everyone. Pay more in taxes but get a lot more in terms of a more dignified, healthier, and longer life free from the slavery of "gotcha!" gangster capitalism. It will sound like a nitpick but it's not: there's no socialism in Europe. Socialism is an economic system, not a synonym for "socially…

> It will sound like a nitpick but it's not: there's no socialism in Europe.

If Europe has no socialism they've still somehow managed to end up with a lot of European Socialists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_European_Socialists). Some words are basically meaningless because everybody has their own definition for them and socialism is certainly one of those words. It's probably better to avoid the term entirely and just describe what you mean because some people get so emotional just hearing it that they seem to lose the ability to think.

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#117

Post by piva00 »

autoexec wrote: post #116
piva00 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The advantage most European and other countries have under socialism is it means there's a minimum average quality of life everyone. Pay more in taxes but get a lot more in terms of a more dignified, healthier, and longer life free from the slavery of "gotcha!" gangster capitalism. It will sound like a nitpick but it's not: there's no socialism in Europe. Socialism is an economic system, not a synonym for "socially…

> It will sound like a nitpick but it's not: there's no socialism in Europe. If Europe has no socialism they've still somehow managed to end up with a lot of European Socialists ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_European_Socialists ). Some words are basically meaningless because everybody has their own definition for them and socialism is certainly one of those words. It's probably better to avoid the term ent…

Words have meaning, socialism has a meaning:

> Socialism: a political philosophy and movement encompassing a wide range of economic and social systems, which are characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.

That is the meaning, it's not meaningless. It becomes meaningless when people just accept that it can mean anything they want, it can't. Socialism has a very specific characteristic: social ownership of the means of production.

If people misuse the term they need to be corrected. At least until the meaning completely shifts to something else, like what Americans try to do with the term "liberal" which does not, at all, mean "progressive" as is the usage in the USA.

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#118

Post by autoexec »

piva00 wrote: post #117
autoexec wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will sound like a nitpick but it's not: there's no socialism in Europe. If Europe has no socialism they've still somehow managed to end up with a lot of European Socialists ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_European_Socialists ). Some words are basically meaningless because everybody has their own definition for them and socialism is certainly one of those words. It's probably better to avoid the term ent…

Words have meaning, socialism has a meaning: > Socialism: a political philosophy and movement encompassing a wide range of economic and social systems, which are characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership. That is the meaning, it's not meaningless. It becomes meaningless when people just accept that it can mean anything they want, it can't. Socialism has a very speci…

Words do have meanings, the word socialism has so many meanings that using the term just makes things less clear. Even your preferred definition is so overbroad that it strains usefulness. Any definition that lumps together the political philosophy of Keir Starmer with that of Joseph Stalin is one of questionable utility.

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#119

Post by jones6ofMont »

etrautmann wrote: post #89
1letterunixname wrote: post #15

That's a shitty bill. It's also insane that US doctors and hospitals aren't required to post prices, keep prices reasonably within an allowed range, and are allowed to price gouge customers for however much they want without limit. In Redding CA, I ran across a woman with a nasal infusion pump tube taped to her face in a coffee shop. She was hurriedly collecting paperwork for a hearing across the street. It turns out…

Doctors are NOT to blame here. It's almost as inscrutable and impossible for them to understand the process as the patients. Doctors often times have to battle insurance companies on behalf of the patients to get them the drugs they need with coverage. My wife is a cancer physician and spends hours on the phone convincing insurance companies that patients actually need the treatments she's proscribed. It's an infuria…

[dead]

Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots

#120

Post by theGnuMe »

dheera wrote: post #109
theGnuMe wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't the insurer pay? Was it not covered? And what setting was it in, outpatient or ER? If ER then you should be able to dispute with your insurer to get it covered. If outpatient you might be able to negotiate with the Financial Services folks that they (the doctor) did not submit for pre-authorization appropriately per industry standards. That's where you build your argument that they acted inappropriately an…

> Why didn't the insurer pay? Was it not covered? And what setting was it in, outpatient or ER? Outpatient. Routine preventative care, I have a heart condition so echocardiograms are done every 2-3 years as a preventative measure. Insurance plan claims 100% coverage of preventative care with no deductible or coinsurance. I tried to dispute with insurance but they insist that it wasn't preventative (it's my body, my h…

Look into https://www.dmhc.ca.gov/fileacomplaint.aspx

I imagine an expert from the DMHC can advise on your specific situation.

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