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Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#111

Post by benjamoon »

standardUser wrote: post #35

I have a really hard time believing that non-violent crimes should result in a person being locked in a cage. I'd rather see restrictions that limit their ability to do more damage, like when a reckless driver gets their license revoked. Besides, a free person with a job can pay back their debt to society, literally, with money, instead of the rest of us paying their living costs. EDIT: As comments point out, it is a…

People always seem to be more forgiving of non violent crimes, but just have your house broken into whist you’re asleep with you kids in the house and it can seriously mess you up. It’s such a massive violation and you’ll struggle to sleep in that house again. I’d take a punch in the face any day of the week.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#112

Post by IIAOPSW »

rootusrootus wrote: post #101
IIAOPSW wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But did she steal more than 5k more than once. As written, you can steal $25 a million times and the law does not apply. You can steal $25 million one time and the law does not apply.

It sounds like you're equating "steal" with "be convicted of stealing"?

So far as the three strikes statute is concerned, there is no difference. The law is blind.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#114

Post by tptacek »

ExMachina73 wrote: post #71
standardUser wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last I heard, the founders of Ubiome had fled the country and are wanted by the FBI after their company was raided. Not everyone "shows up" if they have the means to flee.

You're right! Interesting. My original comment about odds wasn't a serious request to make a bet, just hyperbole. It does seem given her high profile if she did flee, she'd be right on the FBI top-10 most wanted list.

She'd instantly get caught, and it would have a profound effect on the next 15 years of her life (for instance: it would immediately put her in a higher security class of detention).

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#115

Post by from »

luckylion wrote: post #48
standardUser wrote: post #35

I have a really hard time believing that non-violent crimes should result in a person being locked in a cage. I'd rather see restrictions that limit their ability to do more damage, like when a reckless driver gets their license revoked. Besides, a free person with a job can pay back their debt to society, literally, with money, instead of the rest of us paying their living costs. EDIT: As comments point out, it is a…

In short: you don't want them to feel any consequences beyond having to pay back the money. I'm sure that'll work great as a deterrent.

Mandatory sentence reductions for milestones like 50%, 75%, 100% of ordered restitution/forfeiture would almost certainly incentivize repayment. Right now the federal government collects 7% of what they are owned from criminal defendants, see https://sci-hub.se/https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/d... (page 2). It has been proven that white collar criminals are typically the more calculating type and that they weigh the risks of getting caught so if there is a good reason to preserve at least some of the money they fraudulently obtain instead of spending it all on luxury goods they will likely do so. It's very difficult to argue that the current system is effective when there are people who caused bank failures through million dollar frauds getting 7-8 years in prison and $100 a month restitution payment plans. Right now your "intended loss" (not actual loss) is all that matters for the purpose of sentencing guidelines calculation - for instance if you submit a fraudulent loan application for $50k and don't get it (or get it but pay it back) you're just as bad as the guy who got it and spent it at all.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#116

Post by donatj »

KindAndFriendly wrote: post #15

Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.

I imagine there is something in the paperwork you sign when you pay for it that basically says roughly "this may never actually materialize" and that's the key difference.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#117

Post by [deleted] »

LadyCailin wrote: post #42
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17

A perverse culture of presumed lawlessness has migrated from Wall Street to Silicon Valley. You see it, here, when top-voted comments scoff at the notion of a perpetrator getting jail time. Hopefully, these sentences result in people being less cavalier about criminality. (Andreessen pivoting back to pumping web3 tempers my hope.)

The top comment is wondering why Musk isn’t in jail too. A sentiment I also hold.

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#118

Post by ExMachina73 »

paxys wrote: post #74
ExMachina73 wrote: post #18

Any bets she actually reports? Odds anyone? I feel a woman of her means and personality may try to disappear, go off grid. Does she still have access to money? Were her assets frozen?

Spending a couple years in minimum security prison before being let out for "good behavior" with your slate clean is a much better prospect than spending your entire life on the run from the law.

According to the wikipedia article, even with good behavior she will serve a minimum 9.5 years with no possibility of parole. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Elizabeth_A._...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#119

Post by ejb999 »

lesuorac wrote: post #73
LanceJones wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an FSD Beta user. If you stop reading at "Full Self Driving Capability", then yes, it's an issue for a potential purchaser. But if you read just a little bit more, it becomes more clear what you're buying. I don't feel "fooled" and neither do 1000s of other Beta testers with whom I regularly communicate on Discord.

Oh good point, I should be more careful of what I read. It's "Full Self Driving" not "Full Self Driving without Accidents".

you mean like people?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#120

Post by fghsqwads »

LadyCailin wrote: post #42
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17

A perverse culture of presumed lawlessness has migrated from Wall Street to Silicon Valley. You see it, here, when top-voted comments scoff at the notion of a perpetrator getting jail time. Hopefully, these sentences result in people being less cavalier about criminality. (Andreessen pivoting back to pumping web3 tempers my hope.)

The top comment is wondering why Musk isn’t in jail too. A sentiment I also hold.

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