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These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

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Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#111

Post by Vecr »

bitwize wrote: post #67
bambam3000 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this sarcasm?

No, straight up, that's what needs to be done. I think that the current population-management fantasy supported by the WEF and quite a few on Hackernews -- building enormous arcologies in which to warehouse much of the world's citizenry -- is going to run into technical challenges that threaten the entire project, before they even get to the massive "people hate living there" problems. We can get to actually zero car…

Do you think building thousands of nuclear reactors would be a good idea to do before trying that?

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#112

Post by defrost »

cornholio wrote: post #77
defrost wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, it hasn't been an issue since the last big war in Europe and we can all see how unlikely such a thing is to happen again and that there's no need to have an insurance policy of any sort.

Where does this need for an insurance policy stops? If Europe's trade and defense agreements are insuficient, then perhaps each country should aim for a 3x overproduction, to cover those bad agricultural years? Maybe each city should too? Or perhaps each citizen, we should all retreat to rural homesteads and live on pasture-fed cow meat - a demonstrably unsustainable dystopia that will turn the entire planet into a g…

Now you're just being silly.

The answer lies between your initial zero and your over dramatic 3x imaginary ball of dung.

If your government is sensible and transparent I'm sure there are public domain white papers that cover their discussions and recommendations which might make for an interesting read and put an end to this silly posturing.

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#113

Post by mirekrusin »

Thiez wrote: post #93
spiderfarmer wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no space. The land belongs to the farmers. It’s not up to you to decide what should be done with it.

Perhaps we can stop their subsidies and see if they're suddenly willing to sell voluntarily.

We can then have "you won an argument" sticker for breakfast.

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#114

Post by spiderfarmer »

Thiez wrote: post #93
spiderfarmer wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no space. The land belongs to the farmers. It’s not up to you to decide what should be done with it.

Perhaps we can stop their subsidies and see if they're suddenly willing to sell voluntarily.

Most NL farmers are in favor of stopping all subsidies if it means that it also stops in other countries. Because unlike in other countries subsidies in NL come with lots of strings attached.

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#115

Post by spiderfarmer »

Thiez wrote: post #94
spiderfarmer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is stupid, because it just makes sense to have agriculture in a fertile area like the river delta in NL. And it doesn’t make sense to focus on protecting the very species that are not able to flourish without human intervention. So, focus on protecting species that do well in nitrogen poor areas in the areas that are actually nitrogen poor. If we move production around to average everything out we’ll end up with a…

You're turning things around. These species are suffering because of human nitrogen pollution. Where does all the excess nitrogen come from that is preventing these species from flourishing? Oh hey, turns out it's mostly agriculture.

Most species we want to protect now only thrived/peaked because people extracted nitrogen from the area, like in the case of heath fields and woodlands. Or became sand plains because we repeatedly burned down the forests for military reasons.

I don’t know if you know the history of your environment, but farmers do.

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#116

Post by spiderfarmer »

Thiez wrote: post #92
spiderfarmer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant that agriculture in our fertile delta is way more efficient than trying to do the same in other countries with less suitable areas.

So we're sacrificing the Dutch nature out of altruistic motives? And the rest of the Dutch people don't get a say about the biodiversity in their country, the farmers should make this noble sacrifice on their behalf, for the good of the world? Or is it perhaps just a transparent excuse to keep polluting until only grass, stinging nettles, and blackberries remain?

You’re not sacrificing Dutch nature. Your argument is based on what you hear from doomsayers who make a lot of noise based on incomplete research. The grass, stinging nettles and blackberries you saw on TV only went a couple of meters deep at the edge of forests. It’s not like it takes over entire forests. They are now researching how nitrogen from farms actually deposits, because everything we know until now has been modelled as a dome, while it’s much more likely it’s a low hanging mist.

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#117

Post by spiderfarmer »

28304283409234 wrote: post #102
spiderfarmer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds so arrogant to say farmers are privileged, while these families have worked for generations to build these farms. There are even people advocating to take the farms from them, if necessary by force. I don’t blame the farmers if they want to hold on to every inch, and to fight for every right they still have.

No, it sounds arrogant and privileged to make it sound as if only farmers have worked hard for generations. We all have.

Saying you worked hard has nothing to do with privilege. You’re repeating some of the words you heard elsewhere out of context.

And unlike you, farming families invested almost everything they made back into the farm, for their children, in order to see it continue. And the children (like me) who don’t continue on that farm all have to agree that a large part of their inheritance is gifted to the brother or sister who does. That’s something you only see in well run family companies. The entire family wants to see it succeed.

That’s one reason why the BBB got a lot more votes anyone expected. Nearly everyone in NL is related to a farming family and they have gathered a lot of sympathy because arrogant unsympathetic politicians and citydwellers are bashing their heritage and preying on their land.

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#118

Post by spiderfarmer »

drewcoo wrote: post #98
spiderfarmer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds so arrogant to say farmers are privileged, while these families have worked for generations to build these farms. There are even people advocating to take the farms from them, if necessary by force. I don’t blame the farmers if they want to hold on to every inch, and to fight for every right they still have.

Inheriting a farm is privilege.

Yes it was a real privilege to see my parents struggle financially, without enjoying things that are commonplace in other families, like ‘free weekends’ and ‘holidays’. All so they could make the investments that were necessary to keep the farm afloat. There was no glamour. They weren’t “millionaires” with the accompanying lifestyle.

And it’s not like you magically inherit a million dollar farm either. You saw the suffering that went into it from the day you were born. That has a cost and takes a toll. It just comes with a lot of responsibility and I don’t think you should envy that.

They spent their whole life working that job, not just 5 days a week from 9 to 5 and the kids started helping as soon as they were able to. Like 5 years old. They did enjoy it, because it’s honest work. But they didn’t get to reap the rewards like they would have gotten in other companies.

Saying that any result of hard work is a privilege with a negative connotation makes me puke. You know literally nothing about this life. And you should stop commenting on it.

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#119

Post by cornholio »

defrost wrote: post #112
cornholio wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does this need for an insurance policy stops? If Europe's trade and defense agreements are insuficient, then perhaps each country should aim for a 3x overproduction, to cover those bad agricultural years? Maybe each city should too? Or perhaps each citizen, we should all retreat to rural homesteads and live on pasture-fed cow meat - a demonstrably unsustainable dystopia that will turn the entire planet into a g…

Now you're just being silly. The answer lies between your initial zero and your over dramatic 3x imaginary ball of dung. If your government is sensible and transparent I'm sure there are public domain white papers that cover their discussions and recommendations which might make for an interesting read and put an end to this silly posturing.

>The answer lies between

Where? You are just expressing a political preference and hand-waving to unnamed experts. By all accounts, Europe is overproducing agricultural products and the large part of EU's policies are aimed at limiting this surplus while limiting ecological impact.

There is much more dung than we should have, yet people continue to peddle this idiotic 19th century starvation worldview, where a nation's agricultural output is a measure of its success. An extreme form of this ideology, cognate to Lebensraum, has survived to this day in Russia's internal political discourse, so perhaps you are a bit confused about what's really going on now at Europe's borders.

Re: These Angry Dutch Farmers Really Hate Microsoft

#120

Post by 28304283409234 »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #117
28304283409234 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it sounds arrogant and privileged to make it sound as if only farmers have worked hard for generations. We all have.

Saying you worked hard has nothing to do with privilege. You’re repeating some of the words you heard elsewhere out of context. And unlike you, farming families invested almost everything they made back into the farm, for their children, in order to see it continue. And the children (like me) who don’t continue on that farm all have to agree that a large part of their inheritance is gifted to the brother or sister wh…

> You’re repeating some of the words you heard elsewhere out of context.

That is quite an arrogant claim, sir. You know not me, nor which words or contexts I consumed.

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