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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#111

Post by somedude895 »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #106

I feel like they could have done this by creating a bill saying that US social media companies must be given the same access and freedoms to the Chinese market as TikTok has to ours. It would put the onus back on the CCP, they would never allow it and they would get TikTok banned in the US without being the ones to directly ban it. I am sure someone smarter than I can tell me why this is not a viable strategy.

Because market access is not the reason they're banning it. It wouldn't be very believable to now act like it's about a different issue than national security. You'd basically be saying "if you give us market access, then we'll let you spy on our citizens."

In a democracy you get the types of discussions that we've been seeing about TikTok, so that door's shut now. This sort of "trickery" only really works for authoritarian countries, where the discourse is exclusively behind doors.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#112

Post by throwawaythekey »

sircastor wrote: post #18

I heard on a podcast yesterday a suggestion that the reason the intelligence community doesn't like TikTok is that, unlike with Twitter, Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, etc, they can't just hand a warrant over to ByteDance get the data they want. If there's one thing the intelligence community hates, it's not getting the data they want. Back in the previous administration, I figured this was all a temper-tantrum being t…

I'm still unconvinced that tiktok holds much data that is valuable to any government. As a node in the information tree it might have some marginal utility but my understanding of tiktok is that the data primarily is how much you enjoy cat videos. Maybe the chinese government can work out your sexual orientation, or that you are anti communist, but this is only a problem if you live in China.

Even if the data is valuable, as far as I know there are no backdoors available to tiktok that aren't available to other apps (e.g any tencent game). The security model at the os level seems to be the proper place to ensure privacy, and the witch hunt against tik tok seems to only exist because it is popular.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#113

Post by BLKNSLVR »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #73

While I don't personally mind banning Tik Toc since I think that it is a drain on our culture and is likely addictive, I do have serious concerns: Why nothing about US media companies pushing advertising based on data that really should be protected by privacy laws? Why nothing about the material released from Twitter by Matt Taibi, et. al.? Very concerning stuff for a country talking the talk about democracy. Why no…

The US is "the ship of Theseus"'ing itself, replacing parts that have worked in the past, but are no longer serving the ruling class to their satisfaction, with parts (policies) plagiarised from China that do better serve the ruling class.

Carefully selected to keep the ship distinctly itself, but still ever so slightly different each time.

(I just like the irony of plagiarising policy from China as a parallel to their plagiarising IP from the US - and likely elsewhere).

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#114

Post by BLKNSLVR »

sircastor wrote: post #18

I heard on a podcast yesterday a suggestion that the reason the intelligence community doesn't like TikTok is that, unlike with Twitter, Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, etc, they can't just hand a warrant over to ByteDance get the data they want. If there's one thing the intelligence community hates, it's not getting the data they want. Back in the previous administration, I figured this was all a temper-tantrum being t…

When they can't compete on a level playing field, they tilt the playing field in their favour.

The only way this ends: They keep tipping until they fall off.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#115

Post by goldfeld »

gretch wrote: post #7
humanistbot wrote: post #3

If the concern is privacy and security, which apply to all social media platforms, then why not pass actual privacy and security laws that would apply equally to all social media platforms, regardless of who currently owns it or may own it in the future?

That's not what the concern of the bill is and it's completely transparent. Just read the first 2 pages of the bill and you can see the concern is, in the words of the bill, a "foreign adversary" and their ability to "sabotage or subversion of the design, integrity, manufacturing, production, distribution, installation, operation, or maintenance of information and communications technology products and services in th…

These guys are ridiculous, they represent the "I'm losing now so gonna take my ball home crying" mentality. Oh what a pity the US is not able to always win and have all the hot new toys made of american silicon! Of course it's very fine and dandy for all social networks that matter to be controlled on their soil, of course it's great that US is phone code #1!!1 and that .com is such an american thing at its birth. The land of freedom and opportunity cannot stomach that Zuker could not buy TikTok too? Come on give me a break. Also, even Rome fell. It's better not to start playing the loser's game, it just accelerates decadence.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#116

Post by goldfeld »

charlieflowers wrote: post #81
kirse wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual #1. TikTok is banned in China, but in their similar app (Douyin) their kids are limited to 40min a day and restricted from a lot of the digital opium drip that US kids are receiving in infinite quantities. Sounds like it'd only be fair to follow suit if China itself is limiting the poisoning of their own citizens: https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2023/03/24/douyin-tiktok...

It is mind boggling, and at the same time not surprising at all, that China is enforcing a humane policy to protect its children when we are not willing to do the same.

It is also surprising to realize that China and the chinese actually think as a nation and have a sense of collectivism, whereas the US is to each their gun and their million dollars in the bank. China has always had this sense of being one thing, historically, and even the atrocious regimes, emperors, and dictators are always representative of a populace wish to centralize and control things fluidly and efficiently. Who knows, maybe it will work out, even with the price it has that westerners won't ever consider, or ever let go of a philosophical individuality.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#117

Post by lazyeye »

bas wrote: post #109
gretch wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn't adopt 'general censorship' positions, but if China censors US media, then the US should center Chinese media. I believe in reciprocity. If someone treating you poorly, there's no reason you need to keep allowing them to walk over you.

In what sense is TikTok "Chinese media" when the majority of the creators (consumed in the US) are in the West?

Bytedance is a Chinese company that is required by law to take direction from the CCP. The CCP may find it useful to promote/suppress particular content regardless of the geographic location of the creator.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#118

Post by concernedsoft »

Putting aside questions of whether TikTok deserves this or not, I really worry this is the beginning of the end of general purpose computing. Given how locked down our machines are today, whether on account of walled gardens or increased security, we're almost at the point where it may actually become possible to "ban software" with a few policy decisions, which backers of this bill seem to intend. ("We need a comprehensive, risk-based approach that proactively tackles sources of potentially dangerous technology before they gain a foothold in America, so we aren’t playing Whac-A-Mole and scrambling to catch up once they’re already ubiquitous.")

Wrote some brief thoughts about it here: https://concernedsoftwareuser.github.io/software-freedom/

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#119

Post by winternett »

lurker919 wrote: post #98
Gigachad wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiktok is not just a dumb video host. They chose the content they show to users. And the content their system is shoving in users faces is destructive.

Are you saying there are engineers sitting behind their laptops who upvote the "bathroom destruction" trend in some kind of global dashboard? You sound very certain about the degree of control they have over recommendation systems.

Make no mistake, they let everything sensational trend until it makes the news because it makes them look edgy to a younger audience and that makes them lots of money... Covering your tracks is easy when there's no algorithm/operational transparency.

Social media is the puts when it comes to moral bankruptcy... It is a casino based on popularity, and so many people are dumping money into it on a regular basis that it's really too late to do anything to stem the way it manipulates our world. Congressional action is far too late and futile to the maximum in encouraging any sort of ethics, they did nothing with all the damning evidence presented about Facebook, The only reason they'd ban TikTok is to satisfy the anti-competitive lobby of US competitors if you ask me.

TilTok is a corrupt platform nonetheless, and I really wouldn't be sad if it got banned, the basis of it has already infected everything else, including YouTube to the point of useless overload, so the entire ideal of going viral and getting paid on platforms is actually way past anything meaningful any more.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#120

Post by zarzavat »

abeppu wrote: post #62

What I don't get is why we didn't pursue something in the WTO years ago. China doesn't allow FB, Insta, Twitter, etc to operate in its market, but its companies can provide such a service to US customers? Is that not protectionism? If we're afraid that China will use TikTok to push their propaganda in the US, we should be appropriately concerned that banning a platform to stop targeted speech is in conflict with our…

WTO regulation of services is very limited. It mainly regulates the flow of goods. Unilateral domestic regulation or bilateral agreement with China are the only options.
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