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New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

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Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#111
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> These are exactly the ones I had in mind Those countries citizens rate their happiness with the healthcare system in their country ~2x higher than US citizens do. So that line of thinking doesn’t hold. >> it matters when we're discussing spending other people's money That’s not how money works and until that fundamental misunderstanding is eliminated, learned helplessness will prevail. A country that issues its ow…

> That’s not how money works and until that fundamental misunderstanding is eliminated, learned helplessness will prevail. A country that issues its own currency cannot save money in its own currency. Ah, the so-called "Modern Monetary Theory"... the same one that told us governments can spend infinitely without consequences... and then runaway inflation and looming recession happened. Of course, not MMT's fault... I…

>> the same one that told us governments can spend infinitely without consequences

you’re making a strawman argument. You’ve mischaracterised then proceeded to knock it down.

Here’s Randall Wray, a leading MMT scholar on this topic in early 2020: https://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/covid-relief-and-...

“The inflation worriers’ objection seems to be largely over the “stimulus checks.” While we prefer targeted spending in normal times (and prefer pay for work over transfer payments), these are not normal times. The extra $1,400 (above the $600 already approved) will and should go to most families to help cover those bills. The propensity to consume out of these checks will not be high, as most people will use them to pay down debts or replen- ish savings (only 29 percent of the first round of checks was spent on consumption, while 34 percent was used to pay down debt and the rest was saved). What little boost to consumption they will provide can be handled without inflation, as production around the world has rebounded sufficiently.”

Before we dive into the relief part, note the “While we prefer targeted spending in normal times (and prefer pay for work over transfer payments)”. This refutes your argument as being a strawman. MMT doesn’t say what you said it does.

That doesn’t refute that stimulus is mostly inflationary though, so let’s look under that rock.

All spending, private or public inescapably contains inflation risk, however we saw something else for the most part.

Building on Randall’s reference to what the first relief was spent on (mostly non inflationary - but with some inflation where checks were issued to those without need for relief), we then went on to see supply side shocks (it’s still a pain to source some cars). There were demand shocks very early on - toilet paper predated stim checks so something else caused that demand side shock…

To this day We still see the predictable bullwhip in some markets.

We also see evidence of suppliers opportunistically increasing prices - some of our largest corporations are currently enjoying record profits.

So let’s be more direct in knocking this argument down - what are the cases of inflation that can’t be completely explained with one of:

    1. increased profits in the supplier
    2. global supply shock (oil, gas, manufactured goods etc)
That leaves us with only real estate, financial products including stocks, and…?

So what exactly is the argument around inflation if it is limited to a few asset classes that are ripe for obvious taxation solutions to eliminate said inflation?

>> it is indeed how money works

but going back to this bit, ignoring bs macro fairy tales and looking specifically at the system itself (which most macro theories rarely do, the stated assumptions in most macro bs are laughably absurd).

So how do things work in practice?

Ignoring that the fed has bought treasuries and thus literally means the government created money from nothing on a whim - ignoring this case because while it does sink the argument that taxes come before spending, it is a complex case with lots of gotchas that mean it’s not fair to characterise it as govt create money regardless of circumstance in all cases.

So instead let’s look at the policy that gives exactly this operation:

Step 1: The fed finances the primary dealer banks that participate in treasuries auctions - it accepts treasuries as collateral for repos.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/domestic-market-operation...

Step 2: The primary dealer banks are obligated to stand ready to purchase treasuries

https://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/counterparties/policy-on-...

Step 3: and the Federal Reserve ensures there are sufficient reserves to do so by supplying them through temporary repos (a matched purchase of Treasury debt with a requirement that the seller must repurchase later). While the Federal Reserve is not in that case directly buying the new issue directly from the Treasury, it uses the open market purchase to buy an existing bond in order to provide reserves needed for a private bank to buy the new security. The end result is exactly the same as if the central bank had bought directly from the Treasury.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/domestic-market-operation...

>> In case my sarcasm wasn't thick enough - it is indeed how money works.

I won’t be sarcastic, but you have been overconfident and mistaken.

NB: Great rebuttals include links to authoritative sources.

>> This is a false statistic

People’s opinions are invalidated only if they feel a different way than you? Come on… behave!

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#112

So not only shouldn’t healthcare be a market good (moral argument), but healthcare profiteers are actively distorting the market and are not taking seriously efforts to provide a modicum of information to participants in this so-called market.

It’s one of the most complicated and regulated markets on earth. Yet both the critics and supporters think it’s a free market.

Would a free market be better? Probably overall, but the bar is very, very low. Instead of running another decades-long experiment, perhaps just use a model proven to work? There are many to choose from.

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#113
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's definitely eye opening just how malicious they made it As someone familiar with insurer, provider, and facility IT systems, I'd offer an alternate explanation -- the data is bad because healthcare IT is understaffed (and often incompetent). These are businesses that have squeezed most costs out, and IT is definitely a cost. Imagine banking... if there were much less competitive pressure and an inability to…

I'm pretty sure the truth is a mix of malicious compliance and inability, but I'd weight it heavily in favor of malicious compliance, especially for the insurance data. Insurers know their costs, and when and why they pay specific charges. (My qualifications to make this statement: 15 years in healthcare IT, including UHG/Optum, and 8 years as CTO of a large clinical organization that included primary through tertiar…

> Insurers know their costs, and when and why they pay specific charges.

I certainly don’t have your credentials, but my experience in being an insured person doesn’t match this. I’m willing to believe you, but having filled out forms for UHC to get reimbursed for an out-of-network doctor, it sure feels like they kind of make it up based on how they feel that day. I’ve submitted what appear to me to be identical forms for reimbursement (like the super bill the doctor gives me has the same codes, duration, etc.), and the reimbursement differs for no reason I can discern (had long blown past my deductible, etc.). It feels like sometimes you get lucky and the person evaluating your form gives you a break, and sometimes you’re unlucky and they don’t.

On the other hand, malicious compliance does seem par for the course for these assholes. So what you say makes sense.

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both, and the wait at the paid clinic is long, as is the wait at the free clinic. It’s not whether the cost is socialised or not that decides how long the wait will be. It also doesn’t help that the private system is incentivised to undermine the ‘free’ system at every turn.

> It’s not whether the cost is socialised or not that decides how long the wait will be If care is free, aren’t you more likely to go than if you had to pay even a minimal cost?

Are you? I kind of try to avoid going to doctors and particularly hospitals and ER/EDs as much as possible. Between people with contagious illnesses, and huge amounts of wasted time, I have very little incentive to use as much healthcare as possible.

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#115
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live with private healthcare. The last few trips to the ER have been 8 hour waits, too. This is an under capacity thing. I live in a place that has boomed, and the mismanaged hospital hasn’t remotely kept up. They fired a bunch of folks during COVID, then shocked pikachu found themselves understaffed. The point is, the entire thing is broken nearly everywhere you look. I don’t know what a better alternative is, but…

I live in the US. Every trip to the ER has had 5). So you millage may vary.

You either live in a miracle land where no one ever gets sick yet ER capacity remains high just in case or your child was on the verge of death. The last time I visited an ER with my child it took 10 minutes just to check in. Then a 2 hour wait to be seen.

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I was the ER in the US, I waited four hours with a pretty serious fever. Talked to a doctor for maybe 5 minutes and got sent home. Cost me only $500.

If only there were some automated system you could talk to to decide whether it's worth going to the ER in the first place...

My urgent care facility, the only option between 5pm and 9am or on weekends, pretty much sends everyone to the ER as a precaution. If it’s serious enough, they’ll call ahead and get you into the triage system before you arrive.

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#117
post #80
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why federal governments make the best health insurance carriers. Brokers, medical billing staff, and other middlemen serve no purpose other than increasing cost (in order for an inefficient, openly colluding private cabal to invest premiums, deny claims, and collect profit) because everybody needs access to medical treatment.

Don’t bet on it. There is enough (potential) money and incentive here that almost any system will be perverted eventually. NHS is not known for speedy treatment, for instance. It’s about ongoing oversight and a willingness and ability to cut through bullshit to fix things. That’s in short supply here and everywhere else. The stories (first hand from relatives who use it) of blatant profiteering and abuse of the syste…

If you need anything more serious than your family doctor, expect a long wait in the US too. My colonoscopy is booking 6 months out for what should be a very routine procedure.

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I was the ER in the US, I waited four hours with a pretty serious fever. Talked to a doctor for maybe 5 minutes and got sent home. Cost me only $500.

If only there were some automated system you could talk to to decide whether it's worth going to the ER in the first place...

We have a free health line. It operates 24/7. You talk to an operator who puts you in a queue to talk to a triage nurse. They tell you if you need to go to the ER.

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#119

Monopsonies require a single buyer with a stick to work. Economics teaches that to us since inception. I am not sure why this is even a divisive topic. Sure discuss how a doctor decorates their office. Who cares. When you are dying or are in pain, nothing but treatment at any cost matters.

While there are arguments for and against a variety of systems, this one is weak and specious.

Oh, sure, in a crisis you need care immediately. What about all the other circumstances? What about the possibility of making pre-arrangements in event of crisis, some sort of “insurance” even? Not to be confused with the comprehensive health care delivery product called “insurance” in the US (which, hey, also exists as a model and could persist in a market.) Maybe some markets are still monopsonies, but surely not all. I can surely find a variety of GPs, allergists, physical therapists, …

A sound argument for or against a market health system recognizes that emergency care is only one circumstance of many, a minority of health care costs, and it’s possible we might be better off if it does not drive the overall design of healthcare.

Re: New health insurance “transparency data” looks suspiciously wrong

#120
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live with free healthcare. The last three trips to the emergency department have been over eight hour waits. My father's cancer treatment was not covered so the last year of his life cost him everything. On the other side my child's healthcare is amazing and all free. We get instant access to great services.

I live with private healthcare. The last few trips to the ER have been 8 hour waits, too. This is an under capacity thing. I live in a place that has boomed, and the mismanaged hospital hasn’t remotely kept up. They fired a bunch of folks during COVID, then shocked pikachu found themselves understaffed. The point is, the entire thing is broken nearly everywhere you look. I don’t know what a better alternative is, but…

It's not the same... But what about emergency clinics or walk-in clinics? My brother had a chainsaw accident and they were able to treat him in a few minutes. I kinda hope we get more clinics like this over ER options, I used to go to the ER for a lot of issues until I found these clinics available, now whatever country I'm in America or in Europe I look for them over ER options when available. Good for fevers, fixing injuries, most of the more minor things... I'm not sure about the 8 hour wait but if you already exhausted other options I understand.
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