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Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

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Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#111
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MegaUpload was designed for sharing. So it youtube, I don't see your point here. > Notice it's a somewhat easily searchable space. What is shady/illegal about this? 8 Characters are memorable and easily accessible. Just because someone puts their wallet in their handbag doesn't give me the right to take it if I can. It would be nonsensical to store two copies of the same file as a service like MU or Dropbox. That f…

> What is shady/illegal about this? In of itself? Nothing. In combination with all other factors. Everything. > Just because a DMCA takedown request was filed against user B's link doesn't mean user A should lose their legitimately owned file. As a copyright holder, that's not my problem that 1 in a million decided to upload some questionable copy of my work to a publicly accessible pseudo-sharing site that violates…

>If you upload it to MU, then cry to someone else when that same criminal enterprise gets shut down and you lose the one copy you had.

> Your right weren’t violated. Mine were.

Actually, mine were. I bought a copy and you destroyed it.

You keep claiming that I deserve to lose the copy that I bought because Megaload may have paid someone else to upload copyrighted content. Exactly how was I supposed to know this? (Hint - at a mininum, you need to point to a public announcement by Megaupload to this effect.)

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#112
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is shady/illegal about this? In of itself? Nothing. In combination with all other factors. Everything. > Just because a DMCA takedown request was filed against user B's link doesn't mean user A should lose their legitimately owned file. As a copyright holder, that's not my problem that 1 in a million decided to upload some questionable copy of my work to a publicly accessible pseudo-sharing site that violates…

>If you upload it to MU, then cry to someone else when that same criminal enterprise gets shut down and you lose the one copy you had. > Your right weren’t violated. Mine were. Actually, mine were. I bought a copy and you destroyed it. You keep claiming that I deserve to lose the copy that I bought because Megaload may have paid someone else to upload copyrighted content. Exactly how was I supposed to know this? (Hin…

Since you like analogies, look at it this way...

You drove to the Ghetto and threw your only copy into a crack house. That crack house got raided, shut down, sealed off.

You took that copy away from yourself. It's your problem. Not mine. Cry to someone else about your rights.

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#113
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MegaUpload links were not public unless the uploader published them somewhere. They were publically accessible (as in no authentication was required) regardless of how you want to spin it. But if that's not good enough for you... It's my understanding that megaupload (and it's other sites) links were of the form: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XXXXXXXX I could be wrong, but the links I've found so far all have 8 char…

> I could be wrong, but the links I've found so far all have 8 characters. And all US phone numbers have 7 digits. (It's easy enough to figure out the relevant area code.) Are you claiming that there are no private phone numbers in the US?

You are grasping at unrelated analogies and contexts.

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I think there have been some high-profile cases where a lot of time and money was spent by the government, but the result was either no conviction, or a conviction of a much lesser charge. Now, since as you say, this was a large multi-national operation, I don't know if all those charged will be extradited to the USA, or if they'll be tried in other countries. I really have no idea about laws & procedur…

So capitalism is good except when it comes to lawyers...?

Basically what saucetenuto said.

In the USA at least, much of our government could function nearly the same regardless of if our market system is completely laissez-faire capitalism, or hardcore communist. In fact, you could argue that government and its' systems, like the judicial system should be completely devoid of any possibility for profit motives. Since, as saucetenuto states, those undermine the system.

Now, I don't want to get into an argument about whether good lawyers deserve to get paid better than bad lawyers, etc. But I don't think I'd want to meet the person who sees the justice inequality between rich and poor defendants and thinks "All is as it should be."

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#115
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say I've legally purchased an MP3 from Amazon and I decide to use my UberUpload to host the file so I can access it from any device. UberUpload decides to hash the file so it can depulicate the file and save disk space. Some other user downloads a pirated copy of the file TheArrrrrrBay and uploads it to UberUpload. The file hash is the same, so instead of storing the pirated version, UberUpload points to the legal co…

"Say I've legally purchased an MP3 from Amazon and I decide to use my UberUpload to host the file so I can access it from any device." You would be committing copyright infringement at that point. The rest is irrelevant.

This is highly unlikely. If this is the case then both Google Music and Amazon CloudDrive are both illegal. As of right now there are no lawsuits underway in this case. MP3.com has experienced some of these lawsuits but rulings so far point to this being legal. There is also the fact that emailing an MP3 to yourself would then constitute copyright infringement, which I find even less likely for courts to uphold.

If you have any concrete evidence that storing copyrighted files in non-local storage is copyright infringement I would be very interested in seeing the case law.

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#116
post #24

What kind of DMCA system did Megaupload provide? And what kind of DMCA system is required by law?

Well if you read the article that doesn't matter in this case since it's a criminal case not civil (in which it could be argued that the system in place was inadequate). The article claims that what needs to be shown is intent on violating the DMCA requirements which I'm not sure the FBI has that strong of a case about. They had a system in place and responded to request showing that they were at the very least doing…

Yes I understand the argument put forward in the article, but I was curious about the steps Megaupload took to try to conform with US law.

All of this is crazy, and the point in the article is very much valid in my opinion, on the other hand if the copyright holder allegedly affected were to sue Megaupload in a civil case in the country that Megaupload operates from then that would be perfectly fine in my opinion. I don't agree with the copyright laws that exist at the moment, but everyone should have the right to try to protect their rights in court, even if I don't personally agree with the law.

The reason I asked about what steps Megaupload made to comply with DMCA complaints, and what the law says about DMCA take downs, was out of curiosity about the legal landscape and the chances of Megaupload in this case, even though it shouldn't be a criminal case.

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#117
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you upload it to MU, then cry to someone else when that same criminal enterprise gets shut down and you lose the one copy you had. > Your right weren’t violated. Mine were. Actually, mine were. I bought a copy and you destroyed it. You keep claiming that I deserve to lose the copy that I bought because Megaload may have paid someone else to upload copyrighted content. Exactly how was I supposed to know this? (Hin…

Since you like analogies, look at it this way... You drove to the Ghetto and threw your only copy into a crack house. That crack house got raided, shut down, sealed off. You took that copy away from yourself. It's your problem. Not mine. Cry to someone else about your rights.

How exactly was your average user supposed to know that MU was anything less then legitimate?

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#118
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could be wrong, but the links I've found so far all have 8 characters. And all US phone numbers have 7 digits. (It's easy enough to figure out the relevant area code.) Are you claiming that there are no private phone numbers in the US?

You are grasping at unrelated analogies and contexts.

> You are grasping at unrelated analogies and contexts.

You're claiming that 8 character ids are inherently public. Why is the "publicness" of 7 numeral ids an unrelated analogy? After all, the universe of 7 numeral ids is significantly smaller than the set of 8 character ids, so if the former is private (by obscurity) then surely the latter is as well, absent some other factor.

So, what are some of these other factors?

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#119
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eight characters is about the length of an ordinary password. Exactly how far does blame extend, then? I've seen more than a few people who honestly believe that keeping a URL secret somehow protects the content. I can understand if you're mad about copyright infringement, but why does that person who recorded all of their child's sports matches deserve this merely for using MU? They were sharing their own movies wit…

All my premises have been that 1) MU was one of the top piracy sites on the net, 2) profited from piracy, and 3) was designed for spreading piracy. Instead of edge-cases, how about a common one? Or does that not count? So yes, if any of the above is true, what happened to MU was good. And as far as that loaded question about the person losing his child's sports matches... You can frame it however you want, it does no…

Whatever you think of MU, what happened to the people who lost their files is bad. After all, it will not affect the pirates one bit. There are plenty of copies of whatever they're infringing, but there probably aren't any other copies of those sports matches.

You can call that "loaded" if you like, but it actually happened.

Re: Megaupload: A Lot Less Guilty Than You Think

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Say I've legally purchased an MP3 from Amazon and I decide to use my UberUpload to host the file so I can access it from any device." You would be committing copyright infringement at that point. The rest is irrelevant.

This is highly unlikely. If this is the case then both Google Music and Amazon CloudDrive are both illegal. As of right now there are no lawsuits underway in this case. MP3.com has experienced some of these lawsuits but rulings so far point to this being legal. There is also the fact that emailing an MP3 to yourself would then constitute copyright infringement, which I find even less likely for courts to uphold. If y…

Any copying of a work under copyright is a crime unless there is an exemption in law. It's deny by default. Google and Amazon probably pay license fees to the RIAA. MP3.com was shut down for making unlicensed copies of songs that the users already owned the CD for, so I don't see how you got from them being put out of business to "being legal".

The law is US Title 17

§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following: (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; (2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; (3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending; (4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly; (5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and (6) in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include: (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

Of the other sections from 107 through 122,

§ 108 allows libraries to reproduce "no more than one copy or phonorecord of a work".

§ 109 allows the owner of a physical copy to sell it, but forbids renting or lending software media (CDs etc) without a license.

§ 110 allows schools and churches to hold plays.

§ 111 allows the local loop of a network to repeat the network signal without obtaining an extra license for every single retransmission.

§ 112 allows TV stations to save a single copy of their transmission.

§ 113 prevents reproduction of a "pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work"

§ 114 regulates music streaming services.

§ 115 forces the RIAA to allow anyone to license copies of "non-dramatic" music (ringtones) at royalty rates set in law.

§ 116 allows jukebox owners to form a union to negotiate licensing fees.

§ 117 allows you to let your computer make a copy of software from disk to ram to run programs.

§ 118 gives PBS extra powers in negotiating license fees.

§ 119 allows satellite TV to convert the satellite signal to a TV signal.

§ 120 allows people to photograph buildings.

§ 121 allows the government and nonprofits to make Braille copies of copyrighted works.

§ 122 forces the satellite TV networks to obtain an extra license again.

Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sup_01_1...

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