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YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

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Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#111

Post by jvandenbroeck »

jasonlotito wrote: post #73

I thought we'd already concluded that copyright infringement is not stealing. Neither is linking. Fair use is fine. And that ideas can't be stolen. So, is Curebit wrong because 37Signals is one of us? I'm not suggesting what Curebit did is right. But I doubt any HN user of any length of time can ignore the similarities with other copyright cases where the community here is opposed to the "37Signals" side. I'll have t…

Imo it's also because it's no style; copying source code, linking to resources from another site, copying logo's,.. It's like going to an English gentlemen's tea party clothed like a beggar & shitting all over the place. And then replying on twitter "why do you care i shitted all over the place? what's the big deal?"

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#112

Post by ryanwaggoner »

One thing I see coming up over and over in these comments is that people get upset that this is called "stealing". The logic goes that stealing deprives the original owner, and since 37signals hasn't been deprived of the code and images that were copied (the hosting is a separate issue), this doesn't constitute theft.

While that may be a good argument that file-sharing is not "stealing" (though may still be unethical), I'm not sure it's an accurate assessment in the arena of design.

Part of the purpose of design is branding and establishing a unique visual identity in the marketplace. By copying these designs, curebit hasn't deprived 37signals of the actual code and images, but they have deprived them of some degree of unique visual identity. And to that extent, isn't this stealing?

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#113

Post by jsavimbi »

Peaker wrote: post #100
VonLipwig wrote: post #72

What scares me most is how many people here seem to think it is OK or 'not that bad'. I don't know a designer who hasn't or doesn't draw inspiration from other websites. However, that process goes something like this... 1) Look at website. || 2) Assess what is good about the design || 3) Mock up own version. What a decent person doesn't do is rip the existing site. HTML + all. Tweak it slightly then publish it. What…

In what way is the world a better place when you have to reimplement the design from scratch - as opposed to a world where anyone can copy a design (assuming some credit is given)? Sounds like the latter world will free up a lot of resources for more useful creative work.

Assuming credit is granted.

Creatives work on design to be creative; they don't outright steal it to save time and resources. It's what thy do and witness what happens when you cross them.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#114

Post by sixQuarks »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #101

This is clearly an egregious case of design theft, particularly considering the fact that they're actually linking to assets off the Highrise site. But at the risk of opening myself up to an absolute shit hurricane, I'm curious where my site would fall on the Highrise design theft scale: http://www.powerplayforsalesforce.com . Personally I think it's fine, but it's also obvious that I read 37signals' post a while bac…

Looks like you photoshopped your face onto someone else's body.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#115

Post by schrototo »

I'm astounded how many people here are defending this... Leaving all other aspects aside, why should I trust a company that doesn't even have enough pride to spend 5 minutes whipping up their own fucking button images?

And that they have over a million dollars in funding just makes this even more sad...

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#116

Post by bandushrew »

Peaker wrote: post #100
VonLipwig wrote: post #72

What scares me most is how many people here seem to think it is OK or 'not that bad'. I don't know a designer who hasn't or doesn't draw inspiration from other websites. However, that process goes something like this... 1) Look at website. || 2) Assess what is good about the design || 3) Mock up own version. What a decent person doesn't do is rip the existing site. HTML + all. Tweak it slightly then publish it. What…

In what way is the world a better place when you have to reimplement the design from scratch - as opposed to a world where anyone can copy a design (assuming some credit is given)? Sounds like the latter world will free up a lot of resources for more useful creative work.

Design done well is fantastically useful, fantastically creative work.

It is an art, and you do not reward those who are good at it by copying not just their ideas but their actual works.

I agree, as a developer who does not have much talent for design, that it would be a 'better' world for me if I could just grab the html from places that do have that talent and not suffer for it.

It is hard in an area where you dont have much to offer, to accept that you do not have a right to take from those who do, but accepting that and learning to work within those constraints will make you both a better person and a better developer.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#117

Post by joelrunyon »

honest question

The direct-linking is obviously a stupid move, but if the design was the same (minus the linking), would there be the same reaction?

As a non-designer, if I saw 37 Signals page and told my designer, I want it to be like that, but with our info, I would expect it to look like that. (I'd also expect that they'd mock it up themselves).

I can understand the uproar about the linking - that's a jerk move. But copying the overall design inspiration doesn't seem like a big deal to me though. Am I misunderstanding something?

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#118

Post by jsavimbi »

jsavimbi wrote: post #106
jasonlotito wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or maybe I just choose to ignore your pathetic misdirection and call things as I see them, I'm sorry. Maybe you could point to me where 37Signals no longer has what was stolen? I also applaud your open commitment in support of redefining copyright infringement as thievery. Let me know how that works out for you. Finally, you should avoid baseless insults. It makes you appear stupid and detracts from what you are at…

Ok, I'm the stupid one. Please point out where I insulted you do I can give you credit and retract my claims.

Unfortunately, according to the Curebit apology blog, they do in fact admit to stealing, or as they word it: ripping off. Imagine that.

Case closed. No need for lawyering, they know what they did and they know it's wrong.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#119

Post by eropple »

jasonlotito wrote: post #91
gizmo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are (a) copying other people's work, (b) passing it off as their own, (c) doing so for profit, and (d) unable to see why this is wrong. This isn't a gray area at all.

An honest question (and thank you for not using the term stealing!=)), but you listed 4 reasons. Just curious about where it crosses the line for you. If someone does A, is it still a grey area? Is it because of B? C? D? Personally, I see it as A. B, C, and D merely exasperate the situation, but without A, B, C, and D aren't an issue. Of course, the follow up is if it's because of B, C, and D that it isn't in a grey…

You don't think hotlinking images and CSS is stealing bandwidth?

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#120

Post by b1ind »

Tichy wrote: post #97
nirvana wrote: post #60

This incident strikes me as a glaring example of how broken web design is. A simple page like that should be easier and faster to create from scratch using a WYSIWYG tool, and then publish to a web platform that support it.... than copying the source and then editing it in a text editor. I know in the past such WYSIWYG tools were too rigid and thus we have a generation of designers that work in text.... but it just s…

I am not a Photoshop wiz, but isn't it a lot easier to change a pixel offset by 2 pixels in text than in photoshop?

If your only mission is to adjust one asset by 2 pixels, they're similar. If you want to see how those 2 pixels affect the design in its entirety, then photoshop is a much better option.
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